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7 years ago  ::  Jan 12, 2008 - 8:47PM #31
Drknss
Posts: 135
First set of qoutes: [QUOTE] quoted Thor76:

Broad brush it may be but I was not going to spend all day saying except that guy, he's cool.[/QUOTE]

No but you could of took alittle extra time to add "some". How long would it of tooken you to type that out?


Second set of qoutes: [QUOTE]Not so with gay men (mental connection). I have had some male friends that were gay and was one of the few that were present when he came out of the closet, literally. It was in high school (freshman or sophmore) and I didn't get it at first but then he explained. I thought he was nuts, but at the time he was a very good friend, so I said "whatever makes you happy". It didn't change the fact that we were friends (it must be understood that we were friends that argued everything, there was probally nothing we ever agreed on, except we trained together and were friends so could talk).

I moved away (and we sometimes wrote) and sometime later got a peice of mail that I found so strange. He told me all this intimate gay stuff (not at all coming on to me, just about him and his partner), talking about his partner hitting him, and the sex and all this, but heavy details, and it started to make me question the mental health of gay men. Here was a grown man (by the time he wrote the letter must have been 20) getting beat up by his lover, writting a straight man talking extreme detail about their sex lives, and he was the "girl" so reading this mail made me sick.[/QUOTE]

He probably thought since you was there for him before that he could open up to you. I agree about the sexual details though. He probably could of left that out.

Third set of qoutes:[QUOTE]I do not understand a man getting beat up by his male partner. That is insane to me. Because I would not allow someone to beat me and I would not be submissive. so thats 1. and 2. is that I do not understand the attraction to balls and man ass. Or the hairy upper lip. I.m sorry but I simply do not get the attraction some men have for each other. 3. I actually knew a guy an aqautance(sp) who was gay (had at least two gay relationships) who molested his nephew. Imagine my surprise...So now I put the two together. Perversion is perversion, and one is but a step from the other.[/QUOTE]

I don't understand why anyone would put up with being beating by their partner. I know that there are reasons but I can't wrap my mind around it. I guess cause I've never been in that situation and hopefully never will.

As for the last part. How long would it of taken you to type. "In my experience or from what I know." ?

Fourth set of qoutes: [QUOTE]That does not mean that no gay man is trustworthy, or that they all want little boys (indeed many seem to want grown men) that is not what I said. I said I would not leave my son with a gay man, and do not recommend others to do so either.[/QUOTE]

I don't trust strangers period. I don't care about thier race, religion, sexual orientation or anything else. LOL!

As for the last part of that qoute. That's not what you said either. You said:

[QUOTE]Don't get me wrong, I don't bash gay men, I just think they need help and wouldn't trust them with male children, and I certianly don't hang out with them.[/QUOTE]



Fith set of qoutes:[QUOTE]I also do not think they are going to fry in hell for being gay or whatever. Its their bodies, and I support them in their right to choose what they do with their bodies and lives, because that is freedom and personal rights. But I do not consider it normal behavior and do not hang around gay men. Its kind of like drugs, I don't do crack, why would I bring a crack dealer to my house? So he can rip me off?

I would not and have not bashed anyone for being gay, and will not say anything to the gay people here, firstly because I don't care because we will never meet in person, and if we did, then it would be over lunch, and other topics are really more interesting than gay stuff....to me.[/QUOTE]

And that's your right. You don't want to hang out with gay people that's cool. I agree about the analogy in the last part of the first paragraph. If I have no interest in something. Why would I have that around me?

I agree, being gay is just a part of who I am. It's not the whole of who I am.

Sixth set of qoutes:[QUOTE]The "boys into girls and girls into boys" was actually a joke, which is why I said "ok maby not" to indicate such.

And actaully I have met gay couples through my lesbian friend who were effectifly doing just that. Forcing him to play the piano but not do sports and taking him to every gay parade around. Really they are trying to raise Leberachi(sp). I disagree with that, same as religion. I say educate them properly and aloow free choice. But thats me.[/QUOTE]

I might of missed the humor in that joke. LOL!

While I think it's sad that their forcing their child to play piano instead of sports and with some of the gay pride parades I've seen. I would never take a child to one. I don't know how that's trying to raise them as Leberachi (what is that?)?

Sevenith set of qoutes:[QUOTE]So anyway, I wasn't attaking anyone, and do not feel like an apology is needed. Esp when everybody on here was like "we are open and tolerant to oppossing veiws with in the Heathen traditions" and all that jazz. If that was true, my statements wouldn't have raised much more than an eyebrow. So either you all lie and and really do not in your hearts subscribe to the "open discussion" and acceptance differing veiws tradition typical of Heathenry or you do and you simply forgot that in the heat of the moment because of your attachment to the issue. Which is it?[/QUOTE]

Never asked for an apology.

Um.... I don't believe we said we was open and tolernat. I think what the conensus was is that we understand theres many oppossing views.

In your cas what I was intolerant of. Was you posting so broadly as you did. Maybe I had a knee jerk reaction but consider this.

Now that you've posted in much more detail. I don't think I've been to intolerant. If in you would of used words like "some" "the one's I've meet' or "in my experience" in your original post.

You may of been able to prevent this long and more detailed post. The only objection that I had was you using broad statements and if it would of been on something. That's still kinda touchy in the Heathen community. I probably would of just ignored it.

But since it was I couldn't simply not say anything about it. To let those kind of broad statements go unchallanged would of been like silently agreeing with you. Which might of led passer-bys to believe them to be true. With such broad statements. That could of lead them to believe any number of things about the subject.

eight set of qoutes: [QUOTE]After all, I have yet to say anyone here is "stupid" and "hipocritical" after all, I took the people on this thread seriously when they said stuff like "It seems to me that there is a great diversity amongst those that practice Asatru, particularly with regard to certain social issues. I would be interested in any comments related to typical views on race, homosexuality, and any relationship between some in the community to right wing political organizations." (so I gave my opinion) "Yes, for the most part, we accept differing views held by others as being validly heathen, or validly held by heathens".... "Not only do we tolerate diversity in views, we pretty much expect it."
Even John said "My opinion of gay marriage is reserved" and Drknss said "Heathens usually have different oppions on some many different things."

So now all of a sudden you all have a problem with an opinion....now that is hipocracy.[/QUOTE]

I did say those things. Before you explained your views. It came across as hipocritical. To state:

[QUOTE]I think bisexual girls are hot (I have some good freinds that are pure lesbians) but look down on bi and gay men because I see them as lesser or somehow deviant from nature. Don't get me wrong, I don't bash gay men, I just think they need help and wouldn't trust them with male children,[/QUOTE]

Before you explained your views. I thought it was hipocritical to be okay with bi and lesbian women. Then not be okay with bi and gay men. Though now it seems you may of had some odd experiences.

I didn't call you stupid. I said "the more I read the stupider you sound." You can take that as me calling you stupid if you want. What I meant by that statement was. That your views didn't sound like they was well thought out, there for sounding stupid.

Your right John did say"My opinion of gay marriage is reserved, " he also went on to explain, in what I thought was a well thought out manner.

You didn't see me attacking his views did you?

I actually agreed with him on everything he said except for the Gun Laws. LOL!

There is a diversity in Heathenry and we are pretty tolerant. It's only when someone makes broad swiping statements. On important issues and their views "seem" unfounded. That I get upset.

In case of possible future posts. I stand by my original statements to you. As they was made by the information I had at the time. Did I enjoy attacking your post? Yeah I did. :)

Do I feel bad about it now? Not really, but I will acknowledge that I could of asked for clarification but why?

Again I ask. How long would it of tooken you to type "some", "in my experience, and from "what I know".

Well Take care. :)
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 12, 2008 - 8:52PM #32
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496

Drknss wrote:



While I think it's sad that their forcing their child to play piano instead of sports and with some of the gay pride parades I've seen. I would never take a child to one. I don't know how that's trying to raise them as Leberachi (what is that?)?
 





He's talking about Liberace (Link).

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 12, 2008 - 9:03PM #33
Drknss
Posts: 135
Thanks Sacraficialgoddess.

So was the guy transgender or something?

I thought it was some transgender term. LOL! Like a term for trying raise a boy as a girl.
Which I figured was why he used the word in the way he did.


Take care. :)
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 12, 2008 - 9:09PM #34
Drknss
Posts: 135
Never mind about my last post.

Based on the wiki article Wladziu Valentino Liberace never admitted to being Gay or HIV positive.

Take care. :)
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2008 - 4:20PM #35
Gendenwitha
Posts: 32
[QUOTE=L'Esprit;197537]Thank you!  I had considered responding to Thor76's post but I restrained myself.  I'm gay and the contradictions in the post nearly caused me to have a series of mini-strokes.  So, I thought it better to leave it alone, LOL[/QUOTE]

Ditto!

I feel I'm a weird one in this community because I believe in non-violence, but I also believe that taking away a person's weapon is an act of violence in itself.  So I put myself in the pro-gun rights camp as well... although I've never given much thought as to where in that I draw the line as what's reasonable.  I'm not educated enough on weapons to have an opinion.  The doves/hawks conflict is more propaganda than it is reality, there's actually a lot of middle ground.

One thing I wanted to comment on since it came up a couple of times and was recently in the news with the Supreme court deciding against the death penalty for pedophiles...

There's some good reasons I agree with that (aside from being against the death penalty in general).  Children's testimony is notoriously unreliable.  We think that whatever we remember must be the truth, but in scientific testing we find that that is not the case.  Look at the "satanic panic" or "false memory syndrome" etc. 

The other problem is the most likely pedophile isn't the creepy neighbor down the street, it's Grandpa or Uncle Bob.  Things like this tend to stay family secrets anyway and ultra-harsh penalties are more likely to keep them hidden. Sometimes it's knowledge women pass amongst themselves. Ask your female friends, they've likely been quietly warned to stay away from a person at some point in their lives.  A "bad date" or a friend's step dad... With harsher penalties these whispers too might go away.

Finally there's the problem of slippery slope.  What's statutory rape in one state is your average honeymoon in West Virginia.  Okay, I'm joking about WVA, but you get my point, stat rape laws vary a lot. What is "rape of a child" in one state, can be legal in another state. Prosecution, especially of date rape varies a lot in conviction and punishment.  Marital rape wasn't even recognized as rape in some states until the 1980's.  We've yet to reach a national consensus on what we consider rape, let alone appropriate punishment for rape.  Because of this "flexibility" conviction and sentencing is more influenced by race and class, even moreso than other crimes.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2008 - 4:20PM #36
Gendenwitha
Posts: 32
[QUOTE=L'Esprit;197537]Thank you!  I had considered responding to Thor76's post but I restrained myself.  I'm gay and the contradictions in the post nearly caused me to have a series of mini-strokes.  So, I thought it better to leave it alone, LOL[/QUOTE]

Ditto!

I feel I'm a weird one in this community because I believe in non-violence, but I also believe that taking away a person's weapon is an act of violence in itself.  So I put myself in the pro-gun rights camp as well... although I've never given much thought as to where in that I draw the line as what's reasonable.  I'm not educated enough on weapons to have an opinion.  The doves/hawks conflict is more propaganda than it is reality, there's actually a lot of middle ground.

One thing I wanted to comment on since it came up a couple of times and was recently in the news with the Supreme court deciding against the death penalty for pedophiles...

There's some good reasons I agree with that (aside from being against the death penalty in general).  Children's testimony is notoriously unreliable.  We think that whatever we remember must be the truth, but in scientific testing we find that that is not the case.  Look at the "satanic panic" or "false memory syndrome" etc. 

The other problem is the most likely pedophile isn't the creepy neighbor down the street, it's Grandpa or Uncle Bob.  Things like this tend to stay family secrets anyway and ultra-harsh penalties are more likely to keep them hidden. Sometimes it's knowledge women pass amongst themselves. Ask your female friends, they've likely been quietly warned to stay away from a person at some point in their lives.  A "bad date" or a friend's step dad... With harsher penalties these whispers too might go away.

Finally there's the problem of slippery slope.  What's statutory rape in one state is your average honeymoon in West Virginia.  Okay, I'm joking about WVA, but you get my point, stat rape laws vary a lot. What is "rape of a child" in one state, can be legal in another state. Prosecution, especially of date rape varies a lot in conviction and punishment.  Marital rape wasn't even recognized as rape in some states until the 1980's.  We've yet to reach a national consensus on what we consider rape, let alone appropriate punishment for rape.  Because of this "flexibility" conviction and sentencing is more influenced by race and class, even moreso than other crimes.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 06, 2008 - 12:04AM #37
Long-tailed_Cat
Posts: 86
I would say there is a wide divergence of views from kindred to kindred - but within a kindred, not so much.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 07, 2008 - 6:53AM #38
Rigs_Grandson
Posts: 9
"I would be interested in any comments related to typical views on race, homosexuality, and any relationship between some in the community to right wing political organizations."

Unlike most people, I don't really have any views on race or homosexuality.  They're not something I think about, and so I don't have any defensible opinions on these matters.  I do feel that there is entirely too much emphasis placed on them, however.

As for the aspiring fascists, they may all rot in niflhel where they belong, and the commies can go there as well...

The only real "social issue" I have any feeling about, in other words, the only one I feel applies to me personally, is gun control.  I am foursquare against all gun control laws except those keeping them out of the hands of people convicted of violent crimes.  I'm a military policeman, why shouldn't I be able to own a fully automatic belt fed mega-huge machine gun with nuclear warhead-tipped ammunition, if I could afford one? The weapon I carry at work will kill someone just as dead as the weapons crack-heads and commies carry, and you can only kill someone once.  For that matter, why shouldn't my buddy, who hasn't served a single day in the military but is far more sensible than anyone I've met in the military (especially officers!) be able to be as armed as he wants?  We've done nothing wrong, we've never attacked anyone (except me, twice, but it was in the line of duty), and certainly aren't stupid.

Sorry, I get carried away on my one soapbox issue.  I hope you see my point, and forgive the annoying parts...

Frith,
GP
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 07, 2008 - 7:11AM #39
Rigs_Grandson
Posts: 9
One thought on Thor76's post:

What the hell business is it of yours?  I certainly don't plan on raising my children to be normal.  Have you seen the society we live in?  It's sick.  It debases the fine things in life and raises up the wicked. 

Normal indeed.  Gods preserve us from the normal.

If a gay or lesbian couple wants to marry, what makes them inherently worse parents than a straight couple?  My experience is apocryphal, but every case I've ever investigated of child abuse or neglect has been a case of a straight couple behaving weirdly.  I have gone to several sex crimes classes in the course of work, work that involves a LOT of alpha male types, most of whom are rednecks to one degree or another (including me).  Want to hear something interesting?  Not one of these redneck cop teachers felt the incidence of gay sex crimes was a big enough problem to even mention.  Not one.  Instead, invariably, the entire week (or two in several cases) I spent in each class was centered around straight people being perverts.

Again I ask, what the hell business is it of yours?  If a gay couple wants to adopt, or marry, or raise asparagus on the moon, why should our sick society have any say in it?  How could they do any worse than average?  It's always bad for society when we allow morals to dictate what others are allowed to do.  Always.

What about gun control for gays?  If they can't be trusted with kids, can they be trusted with a pistol?  What if they're super-butch, and use it for hunting only?  Do they need to register? What if they're extra-fancy, should they swear a statement that says they need it to protect themselves from bible thumping fascists?


GP
-Off to go clean my gun before work...
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 07, 2008 - 7:55AM #40
John_T_Mainer
Posts: 1,658
[QUOTE=Rigs_Grandson;608621]One thought on Thor76's post:

What the hell business is it of yours?  I certainly don't plan on raising my children to be normal.  Have you seen the society we live in?  It's sick.  It debases the fine things in life and raises up the wicked. 

Normal indeed.  Gods preserve us from the normal.

If a gay or lesbian couple wants to marry, what makes them inherently worse parents than a straight couple?  My experience is apocryphal, but every case I've ever investigated of child abuse or neglect has been a case of a straight couple behaving weirdly.  I have gone to several sex crimes classes in the course of work, work that involves a LOT of alpha male types, most of whom are rednecks to one degree or another (including me).  Want to hear something interesting?  Not one of these redneck cop teachers felt the incidence of gay sex crimes was a big enough problem to even mention.  Not one.  Instead, invariably, the entire week (or two in several cases) I spent in each class was centered around straight people being perverts.

Again I ask, what the hell business is it of yours?  If a gay couple wants to adopt, or marry, or raise asparagus on the moon, why should our sick society have any say in it?  How could they do any worse than average?  It's always bad for society when we allow morals to dictate what others are allowed to do.  Always.

What about gun control for gays?  If they can't be trusted with kids, can they be trusted with a pistol?  What if they're super-butch, and use it for hunting only?  Do they need to register? What if they're extra-fancy, should they swear a statement that says they need it to protect themselves from bible thumping fascists?


GP
-Off to go clean my gun before work...[/QUOTE]

That is the glory of Asatru.  Only here can one be comfortable as a conservative who judges people as individuals reguardless of their sexual orientation or race, and holds all to the same standards of behaviour.  It drives those who want to lable us nuts.  We just don't stereotype the way they want us to.  Too F'ing bad hey?
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