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Switch to Forum Live View The "True Church" and the "False Prophet"
7 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2008 - 4:39PM #1
Quelle
Posts: 334
Conventional Christian Church teaching about the gospel account of the crucifixtion and resurrection of Christ alleges that Christ died on a Friday night and His grave was found empty early Sunday morning... hardly three days (72 hours) following Friday night. That would be more like 36 hours, or one and one-half days.

This might seem a trivial inaccuracy, except that Christ (Himself) when asked to provide a sign that He was the Messiah, said this: "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." (Matthew 12:40) In that, Christ said this was the ONLY SIGN that would be given, that He (Christ) was the Messiah, MISREPRESENTING the timing of the crucifixtion and resurrection is a rather BLATENT (almost inexcusable) ERROR.

THE TRUTH SEEMS TO BE: Jesus was crucified on the day of the Jewish Passover holy day, which in that year turned out to have been a Wednesday, and resurrected on the following Saturday evening, which is three days. He was then seen later on Sunday, after His grave was found empty on Sunday morning.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2008 - 5:28PM #2
AKwinters
Posts: 73
Expressions like “three days and three nights” were common in Semitic usage, and seldom were employed in a literal sense to specify precise intervals of time. This sort of expression was a common way of underscoring the prophetic significance of a period of time. An expression like “forty days and forty nights” may in some cases simply refer to a period of time longer than a month. “Three days and three nights” was an emphatic way of saying “three days,” and by Jewish reckoning this would be an apt way of expressing a period of time that includes parts of 3 days. Thus, if Christ was crucified on a Friday, and his resurrection occurred on the first day of the week, by Hebrew reckoning this would qualify as three days and three nights. All sorts of elaborate schemes have been devised to suggest that Christ might have died on a Wednesday or Thursday, just to accommodate the extreme literal meaning of these words. But the original meaning would not have required that sort of wooden interpretation. The expression signified only that Christ was on His own divine timetable; it was not meant to lay out a literal 3-day schedule.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2008 - 5:44PM #3
Quelle
Posts: 334
[QUOTE=AKwinters;185092]Expressions like “three days and three nights” were common in Semitic usage, and seldom were employed in a literal sense to specify precise intervals of time. This sort of expression was a common way of underscoring the prophetic significance of a period of time. An expression like “forty days and forty nights” may in some cases simply refer to a period of time longer than a month. “Three days and three nights” was an emphatic way of saying “three days,” and by Jewish reckoning this would be an apt way of expressing a period of time that includes parts of 3 days. Thus, if Christ was crucified on a Friday, and his resurrection occurred on the first day of the week, by Hebrew reckoning this would qualify as three days and three nights. All sorts of elaborate schemes have been devised to suggest that Christ might have died on a Wednesday or Thursday, just to accommodate the extreme literal meaning of these words. But the original meaning would not have required that sort of wooden interpretation. The expression signified only that Christ was on His own divine timetable; it was not meant to lay out a literal 3-day schedule.[/QUOTE]
With all due respect for your opinion, are not your words of explanation a bit of a contortion of the facts? Jesus said: "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."  The statement of three days and three nights along with reference to the three days and three nights of Jonas is fairly explicit to 3 days; not 1-1/2 days or two days. The Good Friday-Easter Sunday story is, I believe, part of the merging of early Christian belief into the Pagan festivals and holidays of that time; and, in particular, those of Sungod (Baal) worship. Christ's admonishment of the ultimate unfaithfulness of some of the early Christian Churches in the Book of Revelation seems, to me, to also point this out.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2008 - 6:26PM #4
AKwinters
Posts: 73
Intervals of time can be counted the same as the days themselves. This would mean the literal division of “three days and three nights” would equate three whole days with the day after the third night being the “fourth” day, which would contradict his own prophecy of rising on the third day.

The word emphatic meant “the emphasis” on three days as a timetable for his work. If he had meant the literal meaning of “three days and three nights,” then he would have had to prophesize his resurrection to occur on the fourth day. We know this not to be the case.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2008 - 6:53PM #5
Quelle
Posts: 334
[QUOTE=AKwinters;185273]Intervals of time can be counted the same as the days themselves. This would mean the literal division of “three days and three nights” would equate three whole days with the day after the third night being the “fourth” day, which would contradict his own prophecy of rising on the third day.

The word emphatic meant “the emphasis” on three days as a timetable for his work. If he had meant the literal meaning of “three days and three nights,” then he would have had to prophesize his resurrection to occur on the fourth day. We know this not to be the case.[/QUOTE]
The reason I believe your argument lacks merit is: Christ cited this "three days and three nights in the earth" as the ONLY SIGN to be given that He was the MESSIAH, to disbelieving opponents, that He admonished as an EVIL GENERATION. Any confusion, in my mind, concerning this PRECISE TIMING serves only to benefit further false Christs, that He (Christ) also said would come later.

Textbooks have been written concerning this subject; and the timing of all the events of the crucifixion, resurrection, ascension into heaven, etc. coincide precisely with the timing of the previous symbolic sacrificial rituals of the Hebrew religion of that day. (These coincidences of timing were exact and not symbolic.)

("At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes."  Matthew 11:25)
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2008 - 6:58PM #6
Apishapa
Posts: 276
A day to God is like a thousand years, and a thousand years is like a day.   

Did He create the world in three days?   He could have done it with a snap of his fingers.   What is important in Scripture is the message---In this instance--He created!   

The discussion here is centered on "time."   What is important  here again is the message,  Jesus was crucified---took all our sins and infirmities on himself---he resurrected from the dead, and is alive today, still doing his work, either directly or through us.     

Praise God!
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2008 - 7:19PM #7
Quelle
Posts: 334
Amen to your message Apishapa. Praise the Lord (God) indeed.

Please also recognize Jesus as the Son of God, not Himself God, but bearing the words of God through the Holy Spirit that had descended on Christ (Jesus) at the onset of His ministry. Indeed to God "a day is like a thousand years" and vice-versa. However, Jesus was the Son of God, in the image and "word' of God, but not Himself God the Father, in my opinion. Jesus Christ confirmed this when He spoke of His own return saying only the "Father knows the day or the hour". To Jesus, in the flesh, three days were three days. For God (the Father) three days might be three thousand years. Christ lived by the days of the earth, measured from sunrise to sunrise.

Peace unto you, Apishapa.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2008 - 7:41PM #8
AKwinters
Posts: 73
Quelle, I think questioning the aspects and facts of your belief are important and healthy activities to participate in, and I am glad you are doing so.

Just from my own personal studies, I take the continued reiteration of Christ's own prophecy of rising on the “third” day, and not at the end of a “three day and three night” period (which would be the fourth day) to be the word. Christ uses the story of Jonah as a reference to the “three day” period. Furthermore, he states to the chief priests, the elders and all the council that “in three days” (Mttw: 26:61, 17:23) he will tear down and rebuild the temple. I take the "in" here said, to mean "within" that three day time period.

Thank you for bringing your devotion to the subject.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2008 - 8:10PM #9
Quelle
Posts: 334
Concerning the concept of heaven for "true believers" and "hell" for disbelievers:

Many have taken issue with proper interpretation of the gospel passages concerning eternal torment of non-believers. One interpretation is this destiny is only for Lucifer (the devil) and the other defiant angels loyal to Lucifer that have been relegated to this earth. (Angels are supposed as indestructable spirits created by God.) As indestructable spirits, defiant angels, that are irreversably defiant, could be relegated to an unpleasant existence out-of-the-presence of God; that is "hell".

An alternate view on the destiny of mortal human beings is that upon death, they do not immediately descend into "heaven" or into "hell" or into "purgatory", but rather "sleep in the earth", until the Resurrection of the righteous at Christ's return. The unrighteous, that have not believed in the Lord Jesus and accepted the Holy Spirit in their lifetime, then simply fall into an irreversal "sleep in the earth" upon death. They have no part in the Resurrection during the Millenium reign of Christ, at His return. The unrighteous may later be resurrected to a repentance or judgement at the end of this millenium.

I represent that these views are not in conflict with the scriptures, but may be different than the opinion of most people.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2008 - 9:58PM #10
Anesis
Posts: 1,543
Apishapa, you have a gift for seeing what is really important, so as not to buy into petty quarreling. A trait I admire.

Hi, AK! Nice to see you here! I like what you have to say, and agree that in the Jewish calendar, a 'day' or a 'night' referred to a whole day or night, or any portion thereof. It is also my understanding that they considered a day as sundown to sundown rather than dawn to dawn.

As for the last post, simply being separated from God is not hell. Lucifer and his angels were cast out of God's presence to the earth. And we here on earth are separated from God until we accept His provision of reconciliation to Himself through the death and resurrection of Christ. Hell is not on this earth, nor is it simply marked by separation from God; if it were, we would be living in hell right now. Rather, hell is a place for those who do not accept the gift of Jesus' penance for our sins go to pay for their own sins.

Why is it called salvation? Because Jesus did the work for us. He paid the price for those who accept it. But for those who do not accept his payment on our behalf, they will have to pay for their sins themselves. Imho, I am so filthy and sinful apart from Christ, that it would simply take me eternity to pay for my sins. Hell is the place people go to pay for their sins.

Quelle, I'm wondering why you think that the resurrection and judgment will take place at the end of this millennium. The Bible says that even Jesus does not know the hour of his return. If he doesn't even know, why do you assume to?
An
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