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Switch to Forum Live View Adultery is clear in the Bible......
5 years ago  ::  Aug 07, 2008 - 5:33PM #1
Adam_Kratt
Posts: 82
Matthew 5:32
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Matthew 19:9
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Mark 10:11
And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.

Mark 10:12
And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Luke 16:18
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 07, 2008 - 5:34PM #2
Adam_Kratt
Posts: 82
McCain according to those Biblical statements lives a life in Adultery!
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 07, 2008 - 7:24PM #3
Apishapa
Posts: 276
Adam_Kratt   

You seem so knowledgeable in Scripture.  Would you please list all the Scripture references in the OT and NT  where it tells you, we are not to judge.   

Praise God!
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 07, 2008 - 7:32PM #4
Adam_Kratt
Posts: 82
I laways find it interesting that Christians like to use the Judge not lest you be judged when it is in their perseonal world view interest but find it perfectly acceptable to judge athiest, gays and lesbians, polygamist, liberals, interacial marriages and a large assortment of other things Christians denounce, But I also find it interesting that Christians do not denounce Divorce and Remarriage two things clearly denounced by Jesus in the Gospels
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 07, 2008 - 8:30PM #5
Anesis
Posts: 1,533
I have done some studying on this subject, and in my studies have found that "putting away" a spouse is the equivalent of sending a spouse away without giving the certificate of divorce. It is wrong to remarry while still legally married to another.

God hates divorce, yes, but he has made concession for it in the OT law, as well as in the NT. Further, he has made concession for the sin that leads to divorce - the blood of Christ. When we repent, we become holy and pure in God's sight. He removes our sin as far from us as the east is from the west. It's as though we have not sinned.

McCain, if he has been legally divorced and remarried, is not living in adultery.
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 08, 2008 - 12:41AM #6
davelaw40
Posts: 19,101

Adam_Kratt wrote:

Matthew 5:32
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Matthew 19:9
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Mark 10:11
And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.

Mark 10:12
And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Luke 16:18
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.



All of which is true absent the power of God

Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Non Quis, Sed Quid
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 08, 2008 - 9:20AM #7
AllLoveComplete
Posts: 931

Adam_Kratt wrote:

Matthew 5:32
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Matthew 19:9
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Mark 10:11
And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.

Mark 10:12
And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Luke 16:18
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.



Let's not forget this one that clearly shows the importance of being born of His Spirit (who has the power and victory over sin(s) that are committed in the heart):

Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 08, 2008 - 3:22PM #8
LiveOak
Posts: 119
1. Adam's profile states that he is a Jew, and he attends Jewish temple, and
2. Adam's profile lists Barack Obama as a person who inspires him.

So I conclude that his post is more about a political motivation to turn Evangelicals from McCain, than it is to seek Biblical truth in what we should do about divorce and remarriage.

That stated, are a candidate's personal history and character valid bases for our choice in voting for our leaders? Absolutely. Is breaking a covenant as important as marriage a valid consideration when choosing our political leaders? Absolutely. Unfortunately, if we only chose leaders without fault, we would have no candidates at all. We need to weigh our political elections on more than one issue, but the structure of the family is of critical importance to the future of our country, and one where we as Christians should not ignore God’s instructions for families in our personal lives or in how we influence our society (including our voting).

I'm going to leave the political discussion, but I agree with Adam that Christians ignore Jesus' perspective on divorce and remarriage to accommodate our society; because our society divorces and remarries for any and every reason, and not just for marital unfaithfulness (even in the church); we are also torn because we have little instruction about what to do if someone does divorce and remarry without due cause – should they leave the adultery, or would that be another sinful divorce?

Arguments given earlier are not entirely adequate:
“Would you please list all the Scripture references in the OT and NT where it tells you, we are not to judge.”
The answer is 1 Corinthians 5, where Paul chastised the church there for welcoming a couple in a relationship that God determined “sexually immoral”; they were proud of their acceptance, but Paul said they should have been filled with grief and put those people out of their fellowship. Verse 12 instructs them to judge those inside the church, not outside.

“God hates divorce, yes, but he has made concession for it in the OT law, as well as in the NT… McCain, if he has been legally divorced and remarried, is not living in adultery. ”
When Jesus was asked if man was allowed to divorce for any and every reason (Matthew 19), his answer was “therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.” He refuted the OT allowance for divorce, indicating that God views the marriage as binding unless there is marital unfaithfulness, which is why remarrying “adultery”. God’s view of what is binding goes beyond human laws; a humanly legal divorce and remarriage does not mean that it is legal in God’s site.  For instance, John the Baptist lost his life for telling Herod that his legal marriage to Herodias was not lawful in God’s eyes.

“All of which is true absent the power of God
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

While we are forgiven our sins, we are also told that we must not live in it any longer. If God views the new “marriage” relationship as continuing adultery, then we can not live in any more than we can continue to cheat on our spouse.

Review these arguments and see if you apply them to homosexual marriages. Does God want them to remain in their marriages, since they are now legal in America? Should they stay in a homosexual marriage, since Jesus forgives their sins? Since God hates divorce?

In the OT, Jews were not to intermarry outside the faith, and in the book of Ezra, God made the Israelites send their foreign wives away. On the other hand, there are notable women in the lineage of Jesus who were grafted in, whose marriage may initially have been forbidden: Rahab, Ruth, Bathsheba. (On the other other hand, Tamar was also in Jesus’ lineage, and I will make no case for God accepting that relationship).

Another legal way out of marriage besides adultery is listed in 1 Cor 7:12-15, where a Christian may remarry (“not bound”) if a non-Christian leaves the marriage (though they not allowed to leave the non-Christian), and if they do remarry, they must remarry a Christian (7:39).

So the question of divorce and remarriage becomes: is a new “marriage”, which may have started as “adultery” according to Jesus, always adulterous? Or does this act of adultery work as an act of “marital unfaithfulness” that breaks the former marriage bond, so that a new marriage is recognized by God as a binding marriage? I don’t see a clear cut case one way or the other. "Don't do it" is obvious; "What to do next" is not.

We do know that God is pleased when we pour ourselves into our first marriages, so that they will thrive for a lifetime. Then we don’t have to try to untangle the messes we create when don’t follow God’s will for our lives.

Sorry for the long post. Cheers anyway!

Dave
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 08, 2008 - 5:18PM #9
Anesis
Posts: 1,533
"We do know that God is pleased when we pour ourselves into our first marriages, so that they will thrive for a lifetime. Then we don’t have to try to untangle the messes we create when don’t follow God’s will for our lives."

Or when others don't follow God's will for our lives. I can't help it that my X did not want the responsibility of a child and so ran away from home - even though he claimed to be Christian. Jesus paid the price for his sin so that I don't have to. I have to suffer consequences, yes - I have raised a child from infancy on my own, and my X disowned our son, even going so far as to absolve himself of any parental rights and responsibilities. He has never made even one child support payment. I have suffered the consequences of his sin.

Does that mean God would have me be alone all my life, never to know the companionship and love of a man again? To leave my child without a father-figure? To battle the very sexual nature God gave us as human beings? No. If that were the case, about 80% of the North American population would be single and never be "allowed" to fulfil our purpose. God said is is not good for man to be alone. Is it any better for a woman to be alone? Of course not. We were created for relationship, and if divorced people are never allowed to re-enter the helpmate relationship, then we are not meeting one of God's most fundamental creations: Marriage.

There is a huge study, and it is very involved. At this point, all I can say is that I do not believe God to be so cruel as to leave someone like me alone for the rest of my life.

As for others who are divorced, remarried, or even sexually active outside the marriage bond, I am not going to be the first to cast any stones.

Btw, divorce was also allowed for the hardening of hearts. I am not saying that people should just up and divorce for any reason at all - I am saying that sometimes it can't be helped, and we need to have compassion rather than a fist of stones to throw.
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 08, 2008 - 6:07PM #10
AllLoveComplete
Posts: 931

LiveOak wrote:

1. Adam's profile states that he is a Jew, and he attends Jewish temple, and
2. Adam's profile lists Barack Obama as a person who inspires him.

So I conclude that his post is more about a political motivation to turn Evangelicals from McCain, than it is to seek Biblical truth in what we should do about divorce and remarriage.



Well hopefully that political motivation wasn't for the democratic party in particular since Edwards dropped a bomb today.:o

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