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7 years ago  ::  Mar 08, 2008 - 11:28AM #11
CreakyHedgewitch
Posts: 1,244
is that a symbol – whether an object, gesture, image or word – doesn’t have just one meaning throughout all of time nor can most be claimed by just one religion or culture or time of history. 

The power of a symbol comes to use not just through our understanding of its purpose, use and meaning within a specific context or contexts but far more profoundly, from within a specific context, by how it’s depths resonate subliminally within and between that symbol and the individual.

Now I could mention that the five pointed star has had many different meanings even within a circle where it is properly called a pentagram. (A pentacle is when it is engraved on something). Gardner introduced this into Neo-Paganism by borrowing the pentagram from the Freemasonry's Blazing Star. The Masons got it from the Pythagoreans. The Chinese use it as do the Muslims and the Hindu, the latter for Shiva the Transformer. To the early Christians (who wore pentacle pendants around their necks) it symbolised the five wounds of Christ and as such, it appears in medieval paintings and in the Arthurian mythologies. In other words, each usage of this is found within a shared and existing but not interchangeable symbolic language.

As for the table of Celtic Knotwork, the Celts left very little in way of records and most symbols have been interpreted and re-interpreted for generations by scholars, archaeologists, living Celts and through such legacies as the Glastonbury and Arthurian Movements down into Neo-Paganism. These transmutations and transmissions of the meaning behind and for Celtic Knotwork have been influenced by Christianity down through the centuries as well so finding it in a church wouldn’t surprise or amuse me at all. Celtic Christianity has an amazing, vibrant and rich history and deserves thanks for passing down much of what survives of ancient Celtic cultures to today. 

It is interesting though. There tends to be a rather proprietary attitude towards anything Celtic, I suspect because such has promoted as being pagan in the ancient sense and therefore somehow belonging to modern Neo-Pagans. Lack of records certainly can become a convenient excuse to not distinguish between the original and a new context of usage. That many Celtic symbols etc were borrowed freely, re-interpreted and the sources often dismissed as irrelevant…well lets just say that many of the Neo-Pagan interpretations of such symbols can best be thought of as distinct and unique modern. And that anyone else can and does hold as much right to re-interpret these in new contexts as unique and relevant symbols not interchangeable with what is relevant to the six living Celtic cultures that survive to this day.     

Perhaps something for you to consider the next time that you see such a symbol in a church.

C.H.
No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 21, 2008 - 12:04AM #12
alienpath
Posts: 6
Ignore.  I meant to post in another thread but it ended up here.  ??
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 21, 2008 - 12:07AM #13
alienpath
Posts: 6
For the first two or three years on this path, I combined Christianity with Witchcraft.  I believe I did this because it made the change-over from Christian to witch more comfortable for me, as witchcraft went totally against my Christian beliefs. 

Just recently, I stopped using the term "Christian Witch"  as my neo-pagan beliefs have solidified.  I'm now just a solitary witch.
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 24, 2008 - 11:16PM #14
Joseph14
Posts: 119
CH,

Your response to Ben is extremely positive and well-formed. You are a fine analyst and an expert student of psychology in defining the "hybrids" of Christianity and Wicca. Finely done.

Joseph14
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 25, 2008 - 3:12PM #15
rideronthastorm
Posts: 6,029
One example of long practiced Witchcraft and Christianity would be the Amish people, I have been told they have their own form of Witchcraft.

I was in the 7th Day Adventist church for a year in my early twenties, all be it they dont practice Witchcraft or Wicca, I have always thought to some degree they worship health so have thought of them as borderline Pagans.

I am practicing Paganism now, but I dont worship Jesus anymore. I have a tendency to think of the real Jesus as being Pagan, and there being some Paganism in Christianity naturally, so though Im not a Christian Pagan, i do think to some degree theres always been some Paganism mixed in with Christianity . I am interested in the Pagan christ book though and hope to get much insight from it.
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 29, 2008 - 11:54PM #16
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496

rideronthastorm wrote:

One example of long practiced Witchcraft and Christianity would be the Amish people, I have been told they have their own form of Witchcraft.





Never heard this before.  You got examples of how they practice?  :confused:

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 30, 2008 - 10:59AM #17
CreakyHedgewitch
Posts: 1,244
Given the shared roots of the Pennsylvania Deutsche and the Amish (especially Old Amish), I expect what is being called witchcraft relates to familial Christianised folk practices similar to PowWow as was and is still practised in PA. Authentic PowWow that is, not to be confused with SRW’s outsider’s take on this subject. There may also be a specifically Amish link back to earlier sources within Germanic folklore as PowWow evolved in North America after immigration.

So perhaps a form of Christian Witchcraft but not related in itself to Neo-Pagan Witchcraft practices.

C.H.
No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 30, 2008 - 11:09AM #18
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496

CreakyHedgewitch wrote:

Given the shared roots of the Pennsylvania Deutsche and the Amish (especially Old Amish), I expect what is being called witchcraft relates to familial Christianised folk practices similar to PowWow as was and is still practised in PA. Authentic PowWow that is, not to be confused with SRW’s outsider’s take on this subject. There may also be a specifically Amish link back to earlier sources within Germanic folklore as PowWow evolved in North America after immigration.

So perhaps a form of Christian Witchcraft but not related in itself to Neo-Pagan Witchcraft practices.

C.H.





Didn't really think it was related to Neo-pagan witch craft.  Like I said, I had never heard this before, and I was intrigued.  Unfortunately, you don't get a lot of Amish on Beliefnet, so there aren't that many folks here to ask!   ;)

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2008 - 10:06PM #19
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496

HexPainter wrote:

NOT the Amish!

Sorry...   There's a difference.

There are the Plain Dutch and the Fancy Dutch.

The Plain Dutch are the Old Order Amish, Mennonite, Moravians.
As the name implies they are Plain.  Not worldly, No ornimentation, no frivolity.  They would not go to a Pow-wow or practice Pow-wow.  The Old Order Amish are well known for their no electricity and horse and buggies.

The fancy Dutch are the Luthrans, German Reformed and few Catholic PA Germans.  These are the Pow-wow Doctors and patrons.  A Pow-wow would be considered a "Faith healer" but yes in the sense that the question was asked it could be considered a "Christian Witch".

There was an old thread on the Folk Magic boards...   I'll go looking for it..

Under the Paganism board...   The Recommended reading thread...
I posted the link to "Sacred Texts.com".  They have the Pow-wow grimoire under the Americana heading.  It's called "The Long Lost Friend"

Hex...   (The grumpy ol Dutchman)




As I said, it was something I had never heard before.

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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7 years ago  ::  Apr 01, 2008 - 6:28PM #20
Bohemianvegan
Posts: 16
[QUOTE=rideronthastorm;382392]One example of long practiced Witchcraft and Christianity would be the Amish people, I have been told they have their own form of Witchcraft.

I was in the 7th Day Adventist church for a year in my early twenties, all be it they dont practice Witchcraft or Wicca, I have always thought to some degree they worship health so have thought of them as borderline Pagans.
[/QUOTE]

I am an Adventist.  We don't worship health, but want to be healthy so that God can use us better.   I want to be healthy because my body is the temple of God. I have noticed that some SDAs have gotten fanatical about health though.  I have come across a few extremists, and my mother told me that a church she used to go to had many extremists in there.   The health fanaticism has become less common now.  I don't know too many of them now aand I have only come across a handful of them in my life.
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