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6 years ago  ::  Jul 12, 2008 - 2:32PM #41
Earthpassion
Posts: 12
[QUOTE=tameless_heart;236678]What about...(although it's fairly suspect) Drawing Down the Moon, hmm...
Ah, although it's not pagan, I reccommend Grandmother's Secrets. It's about the femine spirit expressed through sacred dance, particularly belly dance. On that note, Sacred Women Sacred Dance...[/QUOTE]
Can I ask why you think Drawing Down the Moon is suspect?
Other than being outdated I mean?

For most of my life I thought I was some kind of weirdo, I heard the trees, grasses, ants, etc talking to me. I had all kinds of crazy thoughts and feelings. One person encouraged me to delve deeper, to learn more, to talk about, to...I don't know the correct word but I was given a safe place to explore.
When I was loaned Drawing Down the Moon it was like...
Oh My God! Listen to this! Isn't that what I've always said?
Oh my god! Listen to this! Isn't this exactly what I told you?
Drawing Down the Moon is filled with people who are not afraid to embrass their spirituality and it made me feel it helped me to do the same.

I'm probably saying this really badly
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 12, 2008 - 2:50PM #42
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496

Earthpassion wrote:

Can I ask why you think Drawing Down the Moon is suspect?
Other than being outdated I mean?

For most of my life I thought I was some kind of weirdo, I heard the trees, grasses, ants, etc talking to me. I had all kinds of crazy thoughts and feelings. One person encouraged me to delve deeper, to learn more, to talk about, to...I don't know the correct word but I was given a safe place to explore.
When I was loaned Drawing Down the Moon it was like...
Oh My God! Listen to this! Isn't that what I've always said?
Oh my god! Listen to this! Isn't this exactly what I told you?
Drawing Down the Moon is filled with people who are not afraid to embrass their spirituality and it made me feel it helped me to do the same.

I'm probably saying this really badly



Drawing Down the Moon is a good book, and Margot Adler a good journalist, but her chapter on the Asatruar and the Heathen stuff in general, I have been told, by Heathens, is pretty crappy.

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 12, 2008 - 3:12PM #43
tameless_heart
Posts: 2,084
Not to mention most of her work has been discredited from an archaeological standpoint. She has a lot of fanciful history in her books, but for what they are worth, they serve as a good introduction...
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 13, 2008 - 10:32AM #44
CreakyHedgewitch
Posts: 1,244
[QUOTE=tameless_heart;620460]Not to mention most of her work has been discredited from an archaeological standpoint. She has a lot of fanciful history in her books, but for what they are worth, they serve as a good introduction...[/QUOTE]


I don't believe one can write meaningfully about modern Paganism without some degree of  its mythological history. The latter is entwined with the actual history to such an extent that both must be studied to make sense of either. Each author as well writes from her or his experiences, beliefs and prejudices and therefore can produce only snapshots of opinion that to complete the analogy, the reader can then choose to use in his or her picture album.

As TH put it, DDTM is a good introduction. Take what is useful to you and keep studying further. Simply be prepared to change whatever you learned within this book and to have it challenged by future research.

C.H.
No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 14, 2008 - 11:42PM #45
Ursyl
Posts: 462
I'm surprised to not see one of my favorite books listed here yet.

Pagans & Christians: The Personal Spiritual Experience, by Gus diZerega PhD

He does a lovely, positive, compare and contrast, without being insulting to either type of faith.

I really enjoy the book Being A Pagan edited by Ellen Evert Hopman and Lawrence Bond
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 15, 2008 - 8:55AM #46
CreakyHedgewitch
Posts: 1,244
[QUOTE=Ursyl;625319]I'm surprised to not see one of my favorite books listed here yet.

Pagans & Christians: The Personal Spiritual Experience, by Gus diZerega PhD

He does a lovely, positive, compare and contrast, without being insulting to either type of faith.

I really enjoy the book Being A Pagan edited by Ellen Evert Hopman and Lawrence Bond[/QUOTE]


Ursyl,

I must confess, I found diZerega's book to be less than positive in places and like all authors on this subject, his definition of paganism remains limited to his own experiences. One of the more credible attempts though and I agree, worth reading.

The Hopman and Bond book is also worth reading though one should keep in mind that as a university thesis format, the authors opted to interview recognised authors and what are sometimes referred to as big-name-pagans. As snapshots of how paganism might and can  be defined, a good reference and a starting point to explore any of those definitions mentioned. As a practical guide to being a Pagan, it remains limited in scope.

C.H.
No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 15, 2008 - 8:57AM #47
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496

CreakyHedgewitch wrote:

Ursyl,

I must confess, I found diZerega's book to be less than positive in places and like all authors on this subject, his definition of paganism remains limited to his own experiences. One of the more credible attempts though and I agree, worth reading.

The Hopman and Bond book is also worth reading though one should keep in mind that as a university thesis format, the authors opted to interview recognised authors and what are sometimes referred to as big-name-pagans. As snapshots of how paganism might and can  be defined, a good reference and a starting point to explore any of those definitions mentioned. As a practical guide to being a Pagan, it remains limited in scope.

C.H.





I found diZerega just a bit on the vague side, both on what it means to be a Pagan and what it means to be a Christian.  Limited, as you said, CH.

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 16, 2008 - 1:37AM #48
Ursyl
Posts: 462
hmmm, clearly I need more study, which is a given anyway.

I given Zerega credit though for being open that his experience is in Wicca, and stating that he would be coming from that pov.

There's another book our library had (sad emphasis on "had" despite what I'm about to say), in which the author compared Wicca and Christianity, but with the clear aim (once you got into the real reading) of discrediting Wicca. She set up strawmen of false statements about Wicca, which she then used to "prove" how Christianity is better.  Book made me angry, because the intro and such purport to be rather different.  Book is listed as lost now, which, while I can't say is a great loss, is a loss none the less.  Makes me worry for the few decent books on Paganism our local library has.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 16, 2008 - 1:37AM #49
Ursyl
Posts: 462
hmmm, clearly I need more study, which is a given anyway.

I given Zerega credit though for being open that his experience is in Wicca, and stating that he would be coming from that pov.

There's another book our library had (sad emphasis on "had" despite what I'm about to say), in which the author compared Wicca and Christianity, but with the clear aim (once you got into the real reading) of discrediting Wicca. She set up strawmen of false statements about Wicca, which she then used to "prove" how Christianity is better.  Book made me angry, because the intro and such purport to be rather different.  Book is listed as lost now, which, while I can't say is a great loss, is a loss none the less.  Makes me worry for the few decent books on Paganism our local library has.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 22, 2008 - 7:15AM #50
Embersfire
Posts: 68
I am currently reading  Living with Honour: A Pagan Ethics by Emma Restall-Orr, which is giving me a lot to think about. Really not paganism:101. I'd recommend it to anyone else who wants something different to read. Its written from mostly an English Druid POV, which makes a change. Haven't finished it yet, so can't give an overall picture, but I am enjoying it so far.
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