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6 years ago  ::  Jan 25, 2008 - 1:08PM #11
Treegoddess
Posts: 86
I'm reading Starhawk's "The Earth Path" right now...meh...it's ok, but I have to take her books as I can, she's one of those people that everyone either hates or loves.  *shrug*

I have "A History of Pagan Europe" actually on the way from Amazon right now. 

The other books that I'm reading are more witchcraft/wiccan books and not pagan.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 25, 2008 - 1:08PM #12
Treegoddess
Posts: 86
I'm reading Starhawk's "The Earth Path" right now...meh...it's ok, but I have to take her books as I can, she's one of those people that everyone either hates or loves.  *shrug*

I have "A History of Pagan Europe" actually on the way from Amazon right now. 

The other books that I'm reading are more witchcraft/wiccan books and not pagan.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 26, 2008 - 10:31AM #13
CreakyHedgewitch
Posts: 1,244
[QUOTE=Treegoddess;240350]IThe other books that I'm reading are more witchcraft/wiccan books and not pagan.[/QUOTE]

Starhawk writes from within the mind-set of Women's Spirituality and/or Dianic Paganism (regardless of what she calls it) so what one gets from her depends on what mind-set and perspective the reader has.

I know what you meant by your last sentence within the context of this thread but for those who read htis thread and might be confused by your statement,  (Pagan) Witchcraft and Wicca are and remain also Pagan.  This sentence alludes to books that are focused on Pagan Witchcraft and/or the Religion of Wicca and that do not address Paganism in a more generalised or generic focus.

C.H.
No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 26, 2008 - 9:24PM #14
Feinics
Posts: 2,539
anyone got a good list complied of witchcraft books that arent wicca orientated! I know its a tall order, wiccas influence not withstanding but iv spent hours trawling online for new books to feed the brain, with little success and im fed up of getting excited by a title only to read the blurb and find im on a wild goose chase. Anyone fancy saving me the trouble...:)
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 27, 2008 - 4:46AM #15
lexa_blue
Posts: 327

Feinics wrote:

anyone got a good list complied of witchcraft books that arent wicca orientated! I know its a tall order, wiccas influence not withstanding but iv spent hours trawling online for new books to feed the brain, with little success and im fed up of getting excited by a title only to read the blurb and find im on a wild goose chase. Anyone fancy saving me the trouble...:)



Sure, Ruthy, I'll bite:D.  These are my favorite fairly non-Wiccan witchy books, although you've probably read at least a few of them.

Off the top of my head:
*Scott Cunningham's books on stones, herbs, and aromatherapy are personal favorites (but then, he was an early favorite Pagan author of mine)
*Dorothy Morrison: Everyday Magic, Moon Magic, Sun Magic, Utterly Wicked (new book on curses--even if you view it as unethical, it's still a good read)
*Ellen Dugan: Natural Witchery
*Yasmine Galenorn: Embracing the Moon (fyi, she specifically states in this book that she is not Wiccan

Again, most of these are pretty well-known; but they're pretty non-Wiccan.  I'm at work right now, but I'll look at my bookshelf when I get home and see if I've missed anything.

Blessings,
Lexa

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6 years ago  ::  Jan 27, 2008 - 6:56AM #16
Treegoddess
Posts: 86
Thanks C.H., you're right, I worded that strangely!  :)

I'm reading Garden Witchery right now too, it's a lovely book by Ellen Dugan (who has a Wiccan background but considers herself a Garden Witch).  It's a gardening book (obviously!) :p
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 27, 2008 - 7:17AM #17
lexa_blue
Posts: 327
Garden Witchery is TOTALLY what I meant!:p
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 27, 2008 - 11:34AM #18
CreakyHedgewitch
Posts: 1,244
There are certainly many traditions of witchcraft that are not Wiccan such as the indigenous, the fictional or the mythic that either predate or are contemporary with the modern Wiccan definition of witchcraft.

Non-Wiccan as a label also does tend to be applied to the spectrum of autonomous Pagan Witchcraft Traditions that evolved outside of the Religion of Wicca in the last 80 years or so. Since these were not and are not part of that Religion of Witchcraft, this label is accurate….to a point.

The problem is that all these autonomous Pagan Witchcraft Traditions have been influenced directly or indirectly by Gardner’s re-definition of the term witchcraft. The Wiccan definition - the Craft - lies at the foundation of all those modern Pagan Witchcraft Traditions including almost every familial and so-called ‘traditional’ ethnically themed Witchcraft Traditions. So one can say that authors like Cunningham, Morrison, Dugan, and Gelenorn are not part of the Religion of Wicca but they are not exactly non-Wiccan either. Also non-Wiccan Witchcraft is sometimes used as a description for any Pagan Witchcraft not practised within a religious framework although Wicca is scarcely the only such religious tradition. So when an author like Galenorn says she is non-Wiccan, you may want to consider that she may simply saying she isn’t a Witch practising within a religious framework like that of Wicca.

Looking over my rather extensive library, I would be hard pressed to find any (Pagan) witchcraft author or book that can truly be said to be non-Wiccan. They all use Gardner’s re-definition as a foundation with varying degrees of distancing and all too often, an emphasis on the mythological history of witchcraft rather than the documented origin/roots of the ‘Craft. On the other hand, I do have a number of books on indigenous and historic witchcraft,  but these tend to be universally negative in practise and are largely irrelevant to the actual practise of modern Pagan Traditions. (They do factor into the mythological history though) I also have books on generic spellcraft and magical systems but defining a Witch simply as someone who practises magic or spells has always seemed to me to be very limiting compared to what a Witch might be.

Let me assume here that you all wish to remain/learn/practise within the positive framework of that modern re-definition and within the spectrum labelled as Pagan Witchcraft yet be distinctly distanced from the Religion of Wicca's specific definition of religious witchcraft.

So rather than putting the emphasis on sources being non-Wiccan, perhaps you need to look at what might or would define the nuts and bolts of a practise of the Craft by a Witch who is not  Wiccan?

Just as a means of illustrating what some of the nuts and bolts might be, although it is a bit dated, I listed them on this old thread, I think about the sixth or seventh posts...

Witchcraft 101

Having a framework - the nuts and bolts that you can actually practise -  and keeping in mind that a framework evolves and changes as you grow in experience and knowledge,  the framework still would give you a tool, a filter or lens to evaluate any and all sources. You can then extract, test and incorporate what works for you within your evolving practise.

This would take the emphasis off trying to not be Wiccan and passing up sources that might be valuable in 'crafting' your practise and instead, place the emphasis on establishing your own unique 'Craft as a Pagan Witch. 

C.H.
No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 27, 2008 - 12:01PM #19
Treegoddess
Posts: 86

So one can say that authors like Cunningham, Morrison, Dugan, and Gelenorn are not part of the Religion of Wicca but they are not exactly non-Wiccan either.



I agree with what you are saying. 

In a way its like a Baptist or Lutheran or Methodist saying they have nothing to do with Catholicism, when all the Protestants broke away from exactly that. They may have changed/adapted things, but the ROOT of Christianity  is from Catholicism.

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6 years ago  ::  Jan 27, 2008 - 12:47PM #20
tameless_heart
Posts: 2,084
Hey guys, try not to stay off topic or post unneccessary commentary on this thread. It is important it remains clear and easy to follow. ^_^

Celtic Tree Mysteries- Blamiers
Tao of Pooh (yes I know this isn't pagan but its a great religious book)
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