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7 years ago  ::  Jan 01, 2008 - 5:23PM #21
annihilator
Posts: 17
Maybe truth is a principle that only works when the sercumstances are correct.

Maybe this is why it is so illusive.  One minut we think we know and have the truth, and then when we try and put our revelation into practice the conditions have changed.

I'm thinking that it is impossible to missuse truth, because once the wrong motive is associated with it, it loses it's power?

Truth is only effective when the heart is correct?

Psalm 16:11Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

Psalm 19: 14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

The Psalmist new that there was a 'truth showing' power,  that showed the "path of life" where true joy and pleasure resided all the time.  What was the criteria to find this power? 

A soul searching that researched the "words of the mouth" and the "meditations of the heart".

I believe that the Psalmist was dualistic, but he found some keys to connecting with truth.  We too, often may be trapped by our forms of dualism, but we can transend the effects, by working our volition, toward friendship that One Truth Showing  Power.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 01, 2008 - 9:46PM #22
Flowupstream
Posts: 244
[QUOTE=DaoDuck;171342]Hi!

I am not sure what you meant by "we know that 'it' will 'out'." Can you bring me up to speed on that?[/QUOTE]

I mean we know Spiritual Truth does not require our understanding of it in order to work. We know it works, and our confidence in "what" is not dependant on our understandong of "how".

[QUOTE]I am also not getting your emphasis on "we EXPERIENCE Truth directly." Are you saying that although we do not "know" Truth, we experience 'It" through meditation and feelings as well as through our senses? Indeed, "we live and move and have our being in God (Truth)." I would say that every "experience" is a direct experience of Truth.[/QUOTE]

Meditation, feelings, and senses are usefull in allowing us to "know" (in a gnostic sense) The God "within". At some point we develop a unified awareness of your "two ways of percieving reality" listed below. By "EXPERIENCE Truth directly" I mean to live in the awareness of the TWO as THE ONE.

[QUOTE]The Spiritual and the Material are two ways of perceiving "Reality." These apparent opposites are ultimately ONE, but we usually focus on one or the other. To ultimately "experience truth directly" would mean we accept the Mystery that the TWO are actually ONE and we appreciate BOTH without  clinging to EITHER.[/QUOTE]

I hope this clears things up for you. If not please feel free to ask again.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 02, 2008 - 10:15AM #23
DaoDuck
Posts: 86
[QUOTE=flowupstream;180115]I mean we know Spiritual Truth does not require our understanding of it in order to work. We know it works, and our confidence in "what" is not dependant on our understandong of "how".

[[ I get what you meant: We have "faith" that "it" is "what is" although we can not possibly understand the length, breadth and depth of "it." Right? ]]

Meditation, feelings, and senses are useful in allowing us to "know" (in a gnostic sense) The God "within". At some point we develop a unified awareness of your "two ways of percieving reality" listed below. By "EXPERIENCE Truth directly" I mean to live in the awareness of the TWO as THE ONE.

[[ Meditation and feelings allow us to "know" God/Truth "within." Our sensory faculties allow us to "know" God/Truth "manifest." Right? ]]

I hope this clears things up for you. If not please feel free to ask again.
kip[/QUOTE]

Yes,  I see that we are definitely on the same "wave-length."

Indeed, the best way to "know" truth or "experience it directly" (awareness of the TWO as THE ONE), is to fully experience BOTH aspects of the TWO (spiritual and material) without attaching to EITHER. It is the "Way" or "Path" that is no-path, merely acknowledging that the "One" appears as "Two." Does that square with your understanding?

A good example may be WORDS! We can not conceive of "Truth" or communicate effectively with each other without thoughts and words. However, words are not the only way we "Know" or understand God/Truth. We also experience God/Truth in our hearts, as Love. So, to rely only on thoughts and words or only on Love would be telling half the story.

To "experience Truth directly" requires BOTH thoughts/words and feelings/love, realizing that NEITHER is adequate to explain the Mystery of Unity. Not able to explain the Mystery, we can just relax and embrace it: "the Truth" will set you free."

Does that clarify my view?
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 18, 2008 - 10:20AM #24
WillSea
Posts: 32
For me, Truth is the unchangeable Reality (cap R), Pure, Essential and INFINITE.  God is Truth.  Truth is that which IS.

The only thing that changes in regards to Truth is our perception of it. Truth doesn't change, but WE DO. Imagine flying over an infinite landscape and trying to describe it all in a single snapshot view.  What we see in each moment may be true, but it does not encompass the Truth.  A snapshot of Truth, like scripture or like any one religion, cannot encompass the full Truth.  It might give hints, but really only if we are willing to disregard them as concrete.  In this, "facts are the enemy of the Truth" if we take them literally and refuse to expand our awareness of Truth.

The best we can do is to understand that our perceptions are limited, attempt to grasp as WIDE a perception of It as possible and even then, realize that this will change and grow as we change and grow.  If I have to chuck my perceptions or limited ideas in order to grasp a wider Truth, then I am more than willing, because this brings me closer to the Divine.  If God is Truth, then I want MORE of It, not less.

In Greek, the root of the word "truth" means "to unhide itself."  This gives a hint of the nature of Truth, that it seeks to be revealed to those who respect and honor it.  For me, I cannot honor Truth if I clamp down on my limited perception of it.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 29, 2008 - 9:55AM #25
DaoDuck
Posts: 86
[QUOTE=WillSea;222563]For me, Truth is the unchangeable Reality (cap R), Pure, Essential and INFINITE.  God is Truth.  Truth is that which IS.

The only thing that changes in regards to Truth is our perception of it. Truth doesn't change, but WE DO. Imagine flying over an infinite landscape and trying to describe it all in a single snapshot view.  What we see in each moment may be true, but it does not encompass the Truth.  A snapshot of Truth, like scripture or like any one religion, cannot encompass the full Truth.  It might give hints, but really only if we are willing to disregard them as concrete.  In this, "facts are the enemy of the Truth" if we take them literally and refuse to expand our awareness of Truth.

The best we can do is to understand that our perceptions are limited, attempt to grasp as WIDE a perception of It as possible and even then, realize that this will change and grow as we change and grow.  If I have to chuck my perceptions or limited ideas in order to grasp a wider Truth, then I am more than willing, because this brings me closer to the Divine.  If God is Truth, then I want MORE of It, not less.

In Greek, the root of the word "truth" means "to unhide itself."  This gives a hint of the nature of Truth, that it seeks to be revealed to those who respect and honor it.  For me, I cannot honor Truth if I clamp down on my limited perception of it.[/QUOTE]

Wow, Willsea,

You stated that so well, I am in awe of what you said (it must be revelaing "truth"). Part of "honoring" truth is letting go of the arrogance of thinking we can comprehend it.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 29, 2008 - 12:56PM #26
Just1dering
Posts: 104
[QUOTE=DaoDuck;249034]Wow, Willsea,

You stated that so well, I am in awe of what you said (it must be revelaing "truth"). Part of "honoring" truth is letting go of the arrogance of thinking we can comprehend it.[/QUOTE]

I was attracted to this thread by DaoDuck's comment and just finished reading through all of your thoughtful and thought provoking comments.   I find myself in alignment with much of what has been shared and I am just wondering what you think of this notion. 

I have the sense that Truth is contained within every particle of the landscape Wellsea describes.  I'm thinking here in the holographic sense.  Every particle in its essence contains all of the whole, but in Its infinite objectified form one cannot perceive the whole in one glimpse.  Is it possible, I wonder,  to experience Truth through any part of it, without trying to limit it through comprehension.  And in that moment would I not be fully consumed by Love?
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2008 - 8:24AM #27
DaoDuck
Posts: 86
[QUOTE=Just1dering;249537]I was attracted to this thread by DaoDuck's comment and just finished reading through all of your thoughtful and thought provoking comments.   I find myself in alignment with much of what has been shared and I am just wondering what you think of this notion. 

I have the sense that Truth is contained within every particle of the landscape Wellsea describes.  I'm thinking here in the holographic sense.  Every particle in its essence contains all of the whole, but in Its infinite objectified form one cannot perceive the whole in one glimpse.  Is it possible, I wonder,  to experience Truth through any part of it, without trying to limit it through comprehension.  And in that moment would I not be fully consumed by Love?[/QUOTE]

I believe you would be "fully consumed by love" because Love is the closest thing to Truth that I can conceive of. I think there may be two ways of perceiving Truth: 1)  Scientifically, through observation - what you experience via sensory means is a glimpse or "snapshot" of Truth and 2) Spiritually, through solitude - what you experience via inner realization is a moment of Truth. By the first method, we are seeing the manifestation of reality, like watching the movie at the theater. By the second method, we "realize" that the person watching the movie is part of a larger, holographic movie. In both cases, it is Light (Love) that "shows" the movie in the first place.

That also answers the existential question, "Why am I here?" It's because Love requires Lovers!

.
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 20, 2008 - 5:12PM #28
williejhonlo
Posts: 3,798
Truth is that which is beyond change. Truth is that which exist in all phases of time ( past, present, future) it exist in the beginning and it is what exist or remains after everything else becomes annihilated. The truth is that which is supreme and Lord over all that be. The truth is that which the relative truths ( that which is dependent and subordinent ) are related too. the truth is that which can be realized in an absolute way ( no difference in its referents and qualities from its self ). The truth exist within itself and is dependent on nothing but itself for its existence. God is truth.
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 28, 2008 - 2:29PM #29
williejhonlo
Posts: 3,798
[QUOTE=Original angel;838960]Hi willie.
you call truth something which lie out side of one self
I call truth at the discovery of what ever truth may be with in. the self.
If I'm a spiritual being I'm that and what it means.
God issues are complex as you know .lets keep at being more able, more knowlege, more understanding about origins of life.
original angel[/QUOTE] Yes ultimate truth is that which lies outside of our selfs because no human being can say that he is the creator, maintainer, annihilator, of the cosmo's. We determine our fate by our actions but we are not the creator of fate ( karma ).
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6 years ago  ::  Oct 28, 2008 - 9:05PM #30
Flowupstream
Posts: 244

williejhonlo wrote:

Yes ultimate truth is that which lies outside of our selfs because no human being can say that he is the creator, maintainer, annihilator, of the cosmo's. We determine our fate by our actions but we are not the creator of fate ( karma ).


Since this is the New Thought forum I'll quote a popular New Thought saying..."There's not a spot where God is not!" Ultimate Truth can never be seperate from anything or any place. I cannot say that I am the creator, but The Father and I ARE ONE.

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