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Switch to Forum Live View discussion on the following hadith, which is contrary to accepting hadith and sunna
7 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2007 - 1:14PM #1
blucat
Posts: 143
Those who claim to follow the alleged Hadiths books however refuse to follow one of their so called authentic Hadith that may have saved them, the prophet said


" Do not write from me anything but the Quran, those who wrote anything but the Quran should erase it."
(Moslem and Ahmed).

discuss?
They simply do not trust the word of God, they do not have faith that the Quran is complete, does not have any contradictions and don't believe the Quran preserved by the signature of God based on the mathematical code based on the number 19.  They think God will not allow alterations or additions, manipulations or corruption to occur via force or through mysterious ways.  The Physical apparancy of the code, should attest to it being the word of God, they just don't trust the word of God, and set up  books on hadith and sunna as sacred.


These alleged Hadiths and Sunna books, contrary to common belief, blaspheme against the Prophet and depict him as a vicious tyrant who did not uphold the Quran.  These books were written against the commandment in the Quran and the requests of the Prophet , not to write but the Quran.  Let us give only one example, to avoid any more embarrassment from the Hadith books.

In an allegedly authentic Hadith reported by Bukhari and Hanbel, "A group of people from the Oreyneh and Oqayelh tribes came to the prophet to embrace Islam, the prophet advised them to drink the urine of the camels. Later on when they killed the prophet's shepherd, the prophet seized them, gouged out their eyes, cut their hands and legs, and left them thirsty in the desert to die."  Part of the blasphemy is calling this hadith, a Sahih hadith.

This is the picture that Hadith books depict the prophet Muhammed, the prophet, God described in the Quran as compassionate.  This is the picture that the enemies of Islam put in the fabricated Hadiths books . It is for those who refused to follow the absolute truth of God in the Quran by upholding the Quran ALONE.

Now do we know why God described His book, the Quran as the best Hadith, the most truthful Hadith, the non-fabricated Hadith ?

Do we know why we should believe God in the Quran ?

Is this what the scholars want us to believe the prophet Muhammed was ?
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 12:54PM #2
taqiyy
Posts: 156
Recommended reading (click the link):

The Authority of the Sunnah, by Taqi Usmani
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 1:55PM #3
taqiyy
Posts: 156
[QUOTE=blucat;103064]In an allegedly authentic Hadith reported by Bukhari and Hanbel, "A group of people from the Oreyneh and Oqayelh tribes came to the prophet to embrace Islam, the prophet advised them to drink the urine of the camels. Later on when they killed the prophet's shepherd, the prophet seized them, gouged out their eyes, cut their hands and legs, and left them thirsty in the desert to die."  Part of the blasphemy is calling this hadith, a Sahih hadith.

This is the picture that Hadith books depict the prophet Muhammed, the prophet, God described in the Quran as compassionate.  This is the picture that the enemies of Islam put in the fabricated Hadiths books . It is for those who refused to follow the absolute truth of God in the Quran by upholding the Quran ALONE.[/QUOTE]

The punishments of those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and strive to spread anarchy in the land are to execute them in an exemplary way or to crucify them or to amputate their hands and feet from opposite sides or to banish them from the land. Such is their disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom save those who repent before you overpower them; you should know that Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Ever Merciful. (5:33-4)

The point of execution in an exemplary manner (taqtil) is to serve as a severe warning to others.  "Taqtil" means to execute someone in a way that is severe.  Stoning and crucifixion are examples of such a way, but the method can be made even more severe.

And Allah knows best.
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 2:31PM #4
blucat
Posts: 143
You added the words,"execute them in an exemplary way or..." which you stated in bold- that was not stated in the verses, that is a wrong translation, you've added them.  Here are 3 translations of the verse, by various Muhammadan translators, none of them add 'execute them in an exemplary way or...':

005.033
YUSUFALI: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;
PICKTHAL: The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;
SHAKIR: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,



This verse has no relevance to the Hadith, that is the first point.  Second point it justifies capital punishment and that is basically it.   Now let us review the Hadith to which you justified with this Quranic ayat, to which you added the words, 'exucute them in an exemplary way'.  The punishment for killing the Prophets shephard was threefold, first their eyes were gouged out, then their hands and feet were cut off, then they were left to die in the desert.  Does the Quranic verse state, 'execute them AND crucify them AND banish them from the land.' It doesn't and nor does the verse contain the statement, 'execute them in an exemplary way or...".
And finally they came to embrace Islam and the Prophet told them to go drink the urine of a camel, i might be getting it wrong but that sounds contradictory to the type of Prophet we come across in the Quran, to me that would be an insult, and disgusting, but maybe it was a custom during the Arab times, you may argue.
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 3:25PM #5
taqiyy
Posts: 156
This is why it is important to know Arabic rather than always rely on translations.  The verse says:  "yuqattaluw [kill in a severe way] aw [or] yusallabuw [crucify] aw [or]tuqatta`a aydiyhim [cut their limbs]."

Regarding the authority and authenticity of the Sunnah, I direct you to the link I posted previously.

And Allah knows best.
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 3:45PM #6
blucat
Posts: 143
i may not be very literate in arabic, but one thing in know, is yuqattaluw', simple means kill. it is a form, of Qa Ta La, in its basic verb lettering, which means to kill, has no meaning of to kill... in a sever way,, it simply means to kill, as each of the three translation have put in various different words which mean to kill, none of them add, in a severe way or exemplary way. you've changed meaning from an exemplary way to now severe way.  Lies and more lies
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 4:06PM #7
taqiyy
Posts: 156
In its Type I form "qatala" means simply "kill".  In its Type II form it means "massacre".  There are many forms of a verb in Arabic.   "yuqattaluw" is not derived from Type I.

And Allah knows best.
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 25, 2007 - 9:16PM #8
Muqtabis-un-noor
Posts: 2
The Hadith are explanations to the Qur'an. Rasulullah SAW taught us several acts that we should do to fulfill the commands of Allah SWT in the Qur'an.
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 26, 2007 - 2:03PM #9
blucat
Posts: 143
the Quran does not need explaining, it is fully detailed and complete, give me examples where Hadith are needed, and what several acts are you talking about, do you mean the several as in the number or as in a get what i mean way.
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 28, 2007 - 2:58AM #10
msdeebro
Posts: 68
[QUOTE=blucat;165503]the Quran does not need explaining, it is fully detailed and complete, give me examples where Hadith are needed, and what several acts are you talking about, do you mean the several as in the number or as in a get what i mean way.[/QUOTE]

Hadith are needed to:

1. Explain in DETAIL all the five prayers:
    a. Extra prayers
    b. Virtues of prayers
    c. Virtues of reading Qur'an
2. Explain how to make complete Wudu
    a. How many times to wash each body part
    b. What nullifies it
    c.  When to make it
    d. How to perform Tayammum
3. Explain the EXACT meaning of Qur'an history
4. Explain many suras that are not quite clear
5. Morals and Manners
    a. marriage
    b. Types Divorce
    c. Procedures of making Tarawih
    d. How to treat guests
   
6. Explain How and why we make Ghusl
    a. Substitution when there is no water
    b. how much water
7. He it is who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except God. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.(Sura 3:7
8. Explain Tauhid
    a. 3 types
9. Why we need a Wali
10. How to perform all steps of Hajj
11. All 99 Names/Attributes of Allah in detail
12.  Explain Shirk and Kufr

I could make the list go on, but you still would not understand it or take any explaination for it. You would just want to argue the point. Enough said!
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