Post Reply
Page 1 of 2  •  1 2 Next
Switch to Forum Live View The two Gods and the Documentary Hypothesis
7 years ago  ::  Nov 19, 2007 - 10:41PM #1
Starcomet
Posts: 414
Have you even noticed that Genesis refers to two gods? The first in the Creation story known as God or Elohim and the in the second creation story named as Jehovah, LORD God and the holy tetragram name of God(Yahweh). The Documentary Hypothesis states that two authors are to be blame for this difference. One who wrote the First story and the other the second story. I think this is very interesting and do you guys think that this is what made Gnostic Christians believe that there where two gods?   My preacher believes that there are two Gods according to what Genesis saids. What do you all think?
Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Nov 20, 2007 - 11:07AM #2
g_wheeler2001
Posts: 2
One is a title (El or Elohim) and the other is a name (Yawweh).  It's like saying "Jesus Christ."  His name is Jesus and his title is Messiah.  Not two different persons.
Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Nov 20, 2007 - 11:24AM #3
Geocorona
Posts: 302
I think that El and YHWH were considered two distinct and seperate gods. The so-called "Children of Israel" were probably not a lineage fanning out from a single point (Jacob), but rather the convergence of the northern Canaanite culture (El) and the southern Arab culture (YHWH).

Many centuries after the events in the Pentateuch, the Assyrians had nearly wiped the northern culture. The Levites and a few Simeonites fled south to join the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, and a synthetic history of Israel was formed under the rule of Josiah. An attempt was made to incorporate the so-called "lost tribes of Israel", but this was cut short by the Babylonian Captivity.

The anti-Canaanite slant of the early books reflects political posturing, to lure the "lost tribes" away from self-recogniton as Canaanites or accepting Lebanese (also Canaanite) rule, and goad them to ally with Jerusalem (capital of the Judahites).
Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Nov 20, 2007 - 4:31PM #4
Starcomet
Posts: 414
I think Elohim and YHWH are two distinct gods, that became one down the line.
Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Nov 20, 2007 - 5:34PM #5
Geocorona
Posts: 302
As we read in the Bible, Josiah was merely 8 years old when he took the throne of Jerusalem. Although he was a Judahite (southern Hebrew), he was raised by the Levite (northern Israelite) priests of YHWH. Although El was the chief northern god, these priests were of the second and third generations living in Judea, where YHWH was supreme. Essentially, they controlled the throne. During this time, they assimilated oral YHWH tradition and written El tradition into a monotheist religion.

When Josiah became old enough to command military forces, these priests of YHWH used him to wipe out all competing priesthoods, murdering everyone in the non-YHWH temples.

Monotheism for control of the populace wasn't a new idea. They borrowed the idea from Egypt.
Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Nov 21, 2007 - 5:34PM #6
grampawombat
Posts: 269
I think more needs to be said about the documentary hypothesis. In Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus and Numbers there are three literary strands, the product of two religious traditions. The Jawist tradition (J) is said to have originated in Judah, the southern kingdom. The Elohist tradition (E) came from the northern kingdom of Israel. Within that tradition, there is an additional priestly group (P) that contributed material separate from J and E. For example, the first creation story (Gen. 1:1-2:4) is P and the second (Gen. 2:5-3:22) is J. The book of Deuteronomy is from a later group (D). In addition, there was most likely an editor or redactor (R) who tied the stories together, creating the Torah as we more or less have it today. Whether any of the Torah is an actual historical record is a matter of some debate.

As to the nature of God--Yahweh appears to have been a tribal deity who eventually became a nation deity and, perhaps after the exile and return, a monotheistic concept. As an earlier poster indicated, Elohim is more of a description than a name, though the comments about the conflicts between the two kingdoms prior to exile did exist, and could have played a role in how God came to be understood.
Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Nov 22, 2007 - 10:22AM #7
Geocorona
Posts: 302
"In addition, there was most likely an editor or redactor (R) who tied the stories together, creating the Torah as we more or less have it today."

More or less. No doubt that despite two or more generations of Levites working hard to compile and assimilate the two cultural histories, there were a lot more inconsitencies in that Torah than in the later, Post-Captivity version.

We probably have that assimilation effort to thank for the humanly flawed, multidimensional characters in the Bible.

Although legendary heroes and villains tend to be flat, one-dimensional characters, there is the truism that one village's legendary hero is the next village's legendary villain. Assimilating these diverse versions of legend can create interesting characters without the author understanding the literary genius of it all.
Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Nov 23, 2007 - 1:34PM #8
Starcomet
Posts: 414
I love you avatar Geocorona :), it makes me laugh all of the time. It is true that the Torah we now have today is the combination of all of these stories and laws. But could this be the reason why no seems to notice the difference and contradictions in the Hebrew testament today?
Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Nov 23, 2007 - 10:21PM #9
chris_lg
Posts: 358
Our Bible is a combination of many different writings created over thousands of years by many authors. Most people don't read the stories all at once, or in any kind of order. We read them in little quotes, a verse or two at a time, or in passages read during worship services. It's very easy to overlook the contradictions. When the Bible is studied as a whole it becomes more clear that many authors over time, with different perspectives had input into it. It is a product of a people and their culture; a story of their developing understanding of God. It is not the final word on all things for all people in all times. The spiritual wisdom in its pages is awsome, but not perfect and not unique. (Again, my opinion. I don't speak for everyone here.)
Quick Reply
Cancel
7 years ago  ::  Nov 24, 2007 - 2:04PM #10
smcisaac
Posts: 7,990

chris_lg wrote:

Our Bible is a combination of many different writings created over thousands of years by many authors. Most people don't read the stories all at once, or in any kind of order. We read them in little quotes, a verse or two at a time, or in passages read during worship services. It's very easy to overlook the contradictions. When the Bible is studied as a whole it becomes more clear that many authors over time, with different perspectives had input into it. It is a product of a people and their culture; a story of their developing understanding of God. It is not the final word on all things for all people in all times. The spiritual wisdom in its pages is awsome, but not perfect and not unique. (Again, my opinion. I don't speak for everyone here.)



Okay, but you speak for me.

"Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way."  Gospel of Philip, Logion 72

"Christ will regenerate all things; through Him all things will be purged, and return into eternal life. And when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father, all things will be God; that is, all things will still exist, but God will exist in them, and they will be full of Him." Fabius Manus Victorinus, c. 350 AD
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 1 of 2  •  1 2 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook