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10 years ago  ::  Oct 05, 2008 - 3:10PM #41
Posts: 5,617
[QUOTE=etsryan;803506]Friends of Jews...(what a concept)

Jews in Spirit?

Adopted Children of Abraham?[/QUOTE]

Just revive the status of the ger toshav.

A ger toshav, originally, was a non-Israelite who lived with and could intermarry with Israelites and was obligated to the negative commandments (thou shalt not) but no the positive ones (thou shalt). The only person a ger toshav could not marry was a kohen or priest. The children of Israelite fathers and gerei toshav would have been considered full Israelites. I'm not sure about how the children of an Israelite mother and a ger toshav father.

Then we could keep the status of ger tzedek for those who wish to adopt the positive mitzvot as well as the negative ones.
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10 years ago  ::  Oct 06, 2008 - 3:49AM #42
Posts: 131
That's exactly my position. For most of our history in galut the Ger Toshav could not exist, as we were not masters of our own destiny, much less of others. Now, in the land of Israel, why is the status not revived? If the Israeli government can declare who is a jew and who is not, then the power to grant the ger toshav status is there. Why is not one of these haredim who take things so far as to stone women wearing a red blouse, totally unconcerned about actual Torah commandments about Gerim? I'll tell you why.... because they do not love the Ger, rather the opposite. The Torah COMMANDS them to LOVE the ger, but their heart is hardened. Let's see them muster even a tiny fraction of concern about the Ger as they do about red blouses. Never going to happen, we all know it.

That status would be the watershed, the only thing that would truly turn the Noachide movement from a floundering fringe movement with no direction and less public interest than a crazy cult to something which would really matter, something that could be a force for righteousness in the world. If only we Jews cared enough to make it happen. I'm not holding my breath.
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9 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2009 - 8:55PM #43
Posts: 947

Interesting thread.  I wonder if anyone's still following this discussion.

So a Noahide is a non idolatrous Gentile... would there ever have been such a thing as idolatrous?  If worshiping other gods doesn't make you an idolator (as long as you're not Jewish), then what would?

On the face of it, it sounds to me like the original Noahide designation was a way of saying Israelites could do business, intermarry, etc., with anyone who wanted to do business, intermarry, etc. with them.  Then or now, any Gentile who really had anything against Jews would not have chosen to live among them or do business with them, let alone marry one.  If they wanted to live among Jews, then they would automatically get the "righteous Gentile" designation, wouldn't they?

And by that definition, evidently everyone who isn't Jewish and isn't anti Semitic would be Noahide.  Correct?  Or am I missing something here?

So why is there a Noahide "movement"?  Why would there be any need for one? 

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9 years ago  ::  Sep 11, 2009 - 5:24PM #44
Posts: 618

rofl... i thought the site was about naoiddi   ..... ie Sami culture ie sami shamans...

my mistake i'll leave.... rofl....

else utube link



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9 years ago  ::  Oct 19, 2009 - 3:51PM #45
Posts: 2

This is just a thought but I think people are starting a movement because they like Judaism but they dont want to be jewish. They dont want to go through the entire process of conversion so this to way for them to be around a religeon they like without have all exspections. I have been to a jewish synougouge and I have Jewish ancestry alot of my distant cousins who live in Germany are Jewish but I dont intend to fully realise my jewishness because I dont want to live that way. I guess as Reform syngouge would except me and my family I find it to be all to light hearted. I dont want to have anything to do with the Orthodox or its Sandhedrin. I can say I will Love the jewish people but I wont join them.

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9 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2009 - 9:34PM #46
Posts: 18,418

Simon, have you ever been to a Reconstructionist synagogue or chavurah (fellowship)?  You may find that more appealing than Reform.  I can tell you from my experience that one Reform shul is not like another - same for REcon/Con/O. 

Of course there's no reason for someone to be Jewish while they don't feel like being a part of the Jewish People.  YHVH has made Covenants with other nations, and didn't tell us Jews we were the only ones who were going to be in the World to Come : ))

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8 years ago  ::  Dec 29, 2009 - 12:02PM #47
Posts: 138

I would think almost every monotheistic gentile would be Noachide by definition. But I confess I do not understand why anyone would identify himself as such. It was a term used by Jews long ago to identify those non-Jews who were considered acceptable to do business with. It seems rather strange to label oneself according to the terminology of *another* group with a term that means only that you are tolerable to them. To say you are a monotheist with such and such ethical/moral beliefs makes more sense than to say you are a Noachide. It would be like me, as a Christian, calling myself a demi because that is the term Muslims use to indicate they will tolerate me. I suppose it is appealing, though, if you have no real religious identity and are looking for one, but I imagine it would be difficult to find an active community? It seems more useful to either convert to Reformed Judaism or to a liberal form of Christianity, depending on your cultural background and affinities (and, of course, whether or not you are comfortable worshiping Jesus).

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