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Switch to Forum Live View My hijab, or my job?
7 years ago  ::  Nov 22, 2007 - 2:55PM #11
Ceren
Posts: 1,430
Assalamu 'alaykum,
I was actually going to say someting similar to what Miraj said.

For the people who believe hijab is an obligation, they wear hijab to please God and only because of that. Not to cause scandal, or shock people or anything like that.

AND people would be protected by the "freedom of religion" only IF they are Muslims. Someone can't just go sue their employer because he/she feels like she wants to wear a hijab.

If you're interested in Islam, I suggest that you start by learning the 5 pillars first and start implementing them in your life before being concerned about things like hijab. I''m not saying it's not important but after seeing so many converts leave Islam in so little I have really come to the conclusion that until someone is able to implement the 5 pillars consistently, we shouldn't be insisting in anything else.

And finally, a word of advise to those who think that "sue your boss"  is an easy feat. Suing someone is a HUGE expense (I'm saying this out of experience!!). Every time you say "hi" to your lawyer you have to give him anywhere between $150 - $300. Every day he has to go to court you have to give him a minimum of $1,000. So suing your employer is a VERY expensive proposition and takes a lot of time. In addition, proving that you were fired because of your clothing is also not that easy to prove.
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 22, 2007 - 3:00PM #12
GraceSA
Posts: 1,101
Thank you Miraj, Lee Ann and Ceren!
Salaam,
Grace
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 22, 2007 - 4:56PM #13
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

The-middle-way wrote:

Sister witness, Miraj's above opinion contradicts that of the consensus of the Scholars, as the following fatwa shows:.



I cannot be easily dismissed as a "non-specialist", so I'm delighted to respond to this.

A fatwa is a legal OPINION, not law. My response that there is no reference to hijab as clothing in the Quran is not a contradiction of Arabic lexicon. I am a naive speaker of Arabic, and, as a scholar of Islam myself, I have a strong understanding not only of the theology of hijab, but the history of its development as an "obligation to God" in the minds of scholars

Also, the word "khimar" did not mean headcovering in the Prophet's day, Sheikh Keller admits as much, stating that khimar is familar "in our day" as hijab. However, the fact remains that nowhere in the Quran does hijab refer to a means of costuming. That it does "in our day" is the result of fatwas, not sharia. Scholars connoted the word "khimar" to mean headcovering approximately 200 years after the death of the Prophet. Historically, it was not headcovering in the early ummah.

Not to mention that Quran 24:31 never directs women to cover their hair. It does say use your khimar to cover your breasts, but I don't see many hijabis taking that command literally. Muslim scholars may believe there is no ambiguity about 24:31, the meaning and historical context of the words "khimar' and "hijab" and the obligation from God for Muslimas to cover their heads, but there has been debate and dissent over the issue for centuries.

"Consensus", another word that is bandied about in a self-serving manner in order to stifle debate, is undefined - it is all too common for dissenting scholars to be dismissed as "illegitimate" - thus creating a consensus of convenience. A consensus of Sunni scholars, of Shia scholars; a consensus in the village, the nation, of the Arab world alone. There is a consensus for everyone who wants one. That doesn't make the fatwas Islamic.

What I want to see is the ayah/ayat that define hiajb as clothing, not some other Muslims saying that "this is what God really means". In the historical context, women were not compelled to conceal their hair, nor was khimar the equivalent of hijab. Those who claim this is so are not going back to the Prophet's day, but to dictionaries. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't get my Islam from the dictionary. If you can't speak Arabic and haven't studied the scripture in an historical context, perhaps that's the best you can do.

Salaam

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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7 years ago  ::  Nov 22, 2007 - 4:59PM #14
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

GraceSA wrote:

Thank you Miraj, Lee Ann and Ceren!
Salaam,
Grace



You're welcome, hon!  :)

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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7 years ago  ::  Nov 22, 2007 - 5:11PM #15
Miraj
Posts: 5,021
You got to be a specialist or your just a sad confused soul that doesnt know her "bosom" from her head.

A very astute observation, Lee Ann!  Very good for a non-specialist.
Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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7 years ago  ::  Nov 23, 2007 - 4:55AM #16
GraceSA
Posts: 1,101
Lee Ann- I dunno, you're kinda out on a limb there....head???  bosum??? can you cite sources for either???

((There is no other lexical sense in which the word khimar may be construed. ))

I think using the word "lexical" is supposed to scare us into acknowledging the superior intellect of this point of view.  I laugh every time I read that line- because sadly, it's been posted several times already.

Miraj, thanks for bringing up the issue of "consensus".  That has got to me one of the most abused concepts going right now.  And it usually has to do with putting women in their place.

Salaam,
Grace
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 07, 2007 - 12:44AM #17
QureshiAbbasAli
Posts: 515
In the Name of the High
assalam o alaykum

the whole notion of consencus, i.e Ijma, was borne out of a political necessity first and fore-most. in the absence of a stable political entity in Islam, in post 4 Caliphs, it was mandated as such to the myriad of the different schools that had emanated.

regards, ali.q
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 12, 2007 - 6:34PM #18
arabianwitch
Posts: 669
Salaam all :)

Nice to see that the hijab issue is still an issue, not that I'm surprised.

Hi there Sis Miraj.

And of course, I'm still in the don't wear it, never wore it, won't wear it, won't have my daughter wear it group!

Re-salaams,

Aisha
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 30, 2007 - 11:52PM #19
BDboy
Posts: 5,824
Dear sister,

I like to support what sister Ceren said here. Take it easy and take time to learn more about Islam. Start by practicing it privately.

Once you have some knowledge of Islam and start wearing hijab after than, maybe you will be able to remove misunderstanding about Islam from good Christian people. In the noble Qur'an God said Christians are "Nearest to the Muslims" [ Ref: The noble Qur'an 5:82 ] and there is a whole chapter devoted to our spiritual mother Mary [ Chapter 19].

The word "Jesus" was mentioned in the Qur'an 25 times and "Mary" was mentioned 32 time [ 19 times in the Bible].

We pray to the same God of Jesus, Moses, Abraham and Muhammad [ Peace  be unto them all] .

"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone."

[ The holy Bible Mark 10:18 ]


For more information, please visit the following websites.

http://www.welcome-back.org/

http://www.harunyahya.com/





Feel free to ask as many questions about Islam you want. Then start wearing hijab when the time is right.

I wish you all the best.

May peace and blessings be unto all.
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 31, 2007 - 1:54AM #20
Miraj
Posts: 5,021
Or, maybe not wear hijab ever.
Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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