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7 years ago  ::  Oct 23, 2007 - 9:10PM #1
TrueStrengthLiesAbysmallyWithinTheSoul
Posts: 1
*ahem* Hello, my name is Motoko. I'm in college. Slaving away. ^__^ I have a question. I've lately found it exceedingly painful in my effort to embrace a simple way of living. My friends want to go and do things. Go to parties, clubs. But I find myself falling further and further from it. It hurts because I miss the buddy atmosphere but similarly I feel like it had become superficial. We were always drinking and trying to entertain eachother. Truth is, I miss just having a good conversation. I miss being able to quietly enjoy eachother's company and relish having a simple yet "sublime meeting of souls". I hope I can find ways to bring that to our friendship. If there is one area that is hardest to keep detached on its friendship. I dread the thought of losing friends. I dread it because I am on a quest to find meaning. To find beauty in life. How can I find it when friendships fade so often?
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 25, 2007 - 9:23AM #2
RaymondSigrist
Posts: 578
[QUOTE=TrueStrengthLiesAbysmallyWithinTheSoul;17889]*ahem*  I dread the thought of losing friends. I dread it because I am on a quest to find meaning. To find beauty in life. How can I find it when friendships fade so often?[/QUOTE]

Hi Motoko

    It looks like you want your happiness to be what is called "non-contingent."  (zile) You want to be happy no matter what happens. 

Zhuangzi says that the daoist adept is "Satisfied when successful and satisfied in disaster."   

Many religous/spiritual traditions teach a way of reaching non-contingency.   Hopefully some with daoist interests will show up here to tell you about that path.  In the meantime you can start reading the daoist classics: Guanzi, Laozi, Zhuangzi, Leizi.

ciao,
raymond
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 28, 2007 - 10:04AM #3
Chokmah
Posts: 3,088
Moto,

We are like ships passing in the night sometimes. People come and people go in our lives. I find that I must graciously accept those who come into my life and just as easily let them go. We are social creatures though, and we need human contact and interaction.

I personally would find a coffeehouse to go to, or a student union. I know when I was in college we posted that there would be a "Regular Thursday Night Discussion Group" forming in the student lounge. Many people came and we talked about all kinds of things. Unfortunately some people wanted to turn it into some kind of drinking club and it started to fall apart.

I think that would be fun to try; put a poster up on a student bulletin board and  announce that there is a Taoist-Zen discussion group forming at a certain place each week. See what happens.


chokmah
"We thought, because we had power, we had wisdom"
      --Stephen Vincent Benet
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 15, 2007 - 1:22AM #4
zest
Posts: 1
hello Motoko,as a taoist i too seek to embrace a simple way of life. I've contemplated the basic concepts of detachment , non-action etc and my new found awareness has caused me to view many aspects of my life as superficial. At first it felt like i'd set myself adrift on an ocean. The familiar shore was no longer where i wanted to be because it didn't seem to be as meaningful as it use to be and yet i was not able to experience a new place i'd only read about it. But of more recent times affirming my alignment with the Tao has given me temendous strength and conviction to continue my journey. Sure enough, gradually i'm getting to experience a more truthful state. It's something i prefer to explore in my quiet times.These shifts in my consciousness didn't come about when i was partying with my mates and they don't understand it. But i'm glad i had the conviction to start my journey and no longer dread the loss off old friends. Even if i do find new friends along the way i will feel they will be part of my learning and transcending to a state of detachment etc because I'm more centered in the Tao now and aren't as easily distracted. I hope you may in some way find this a help. Love and light
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 20, 2007 - 1:04PM #5
RevKeithWright
Posts: 137
Stop looking and you will see, stop seeking and you will find.  It hasn't happened yet simply because you haven't crossed paths with the right people.  Take this time to enrich yourself so your cup may be full as it is possible that this person you seek, may have an empty cup.  More than anything, strive for contentment.  When you are content, everything that you experience...from mere breathing to a simple handshake...is a profound gift...after all...we are stardust.
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 21, 2007 - 12:19PM #6
stardustpilgrim
Posts: 5,280
Having not run across Taoism since the beliefnet forum changes, I decided to seek it out as other Forums I'm posting on are getting very slow. It seems that others who used to post here have been as lazy as I have been.

Motoko........... You simply have a choice to make.......go the quiet inner way, or maintain your friendships (as they have been). This is a decision about who you are. Your friends are not likely to change to suit you. You have to stay true to your deepest self. .............. You will eventually find new friends............
stardustpilgrim
The purpose of words is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten.
Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk to.
The Way of Chuang Tzu by Thomas Merton

A map is not the territory.                                                                 Alfred Korzybski

God is that function in the world by reason of which our purposes are directed to ends which in our own consciousness are impartial as to our own interests. He is that element in life in virtue of which judgment stretches beyond facts of existence to values of existence.      Alfred North Whitehead
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 26, 2008 - 11:39PM #7
buyanbodhi
Posts: 4
[QUOTE=TrueStrengthLiesAbysmallyWithinTheSoul;17889]*ahem* Hello, my name is Motoko. I'm in college. Slaving away. ^__^ I have a question. I've lately found it exceedingly painful in my effort to embrace a simple way of living. My friends want to go and do things. Go to parties, clubs. But I find myself falling further and further from it. It hurts because I miss the buddy atmosphere but similarly I feel like it had become superficial. We were always drinking and trying to entertain eachother. Truth is, I miss just having a good conversation. I miss being able to quietly enjoy eachother's company and relish having a simple yet "sublime meeting of souls". I hope I can find ways to bring that to our friendship. If there is one area that is hardest to keep detached on its friendship. I dread the thought of losing friends. I dread it because I am on a quest to find meaning. To find beauty in life. How can I find it when friendships fade so often?[/QUOTE]

You are at the age when the brain and body are finally maturing and you are in the process of making choices about the path you want to follow, at least initially, in life.  Have you ever read seriously and thoughtfully the Dao De Jing? Read that and see what guidance you might gain from the words of Laozi: "knowing others is wisdom: knowing the self is enlightenment" I don"t know which translations you use or prefer-I like the one by Gia -Fu Feng and Jane English. But Try reading it for guidance and get back to us after a read of at least five paragraphs. Ah.I apologize. I used to be a Professor of Philosophy and am used to giving students assignments. B\Still, I think that is good advice.
May you prosper; may you be in good health; may you live forever!
buyanbodhi
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 28, 2008 - 6:37PM #8
MengTzu
Posts: 110
[QUOTE=TrueStrengthLiesAbysmallyWithinTheSoul;17889]*ahem* Hello, my name is Motoko. I'm in college. Slaving away. ^__^ I have a question. I've lately found it exceedingly painful in my effort to embrace a simple way of living. My friends want to go and do things. Go to parties, clubs. But I find myself falling further and further from it. It hurts because I miss the buddy atmosphere but similarly I feel like it had become superficial. We were always drinking and trying to entertain eachother. Truth is, I miss just having a good conversation. I miss being able to quietly enjoy eachother's company and relish having a simple yet "sublime meeting of souls". I hope I can find ways to bring that to our friendship. If there is one area that is hardest to keep detached on its friendship. I dread the thought of losing friends. I dread it because I am on a quest to find meaning. To find beauty in life. How can I find it when friendships fade so often?[/QUOTE]

I think your conflict can be framed as quietude v. chaos.  You seek the quietude of a spiritual friendship, while your friends are involved in the more "colorful" life that is full of pleasures of the senses.  "Chaos" isn't necessarily a bad thing, and in the context of the Daoist texts often just means your sense are having too many activities or that your mind is having too many thoughts..  It is just the opposite of quietude.  Yet it is understandable why a person who seeks a meaningful wants to seek quietude -- it is in such a state that one sees himself clearly.

My answer to your question is that it takes time.  One Daoist text mentions five stages of quietude.
Stage one, your life has more chaos than quietude.
Stage two, the amount of chaos in your life and and the amount of quietude in your life are equal.
Stage three, your life has more quietude than chaos.
Stage four, you are in complete quietude as long as your surrounding is not chaotic.
Stage five, you are in complete quietude even if your surrounding is chaotic.

I don't have the full text with me at the moment.  I might try to translate it to explain how one cultivates oneself to gain such quietude.  Many Daoist texts deal with how to achieve quietude, and I have been translating one and posting my translations here (see the thread "lesser known Daoist texts"), and that might help you out in your quest.
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7 years ago  ::  Mar 28, 2008 - 6:37PM #9
MengTzu
Posts: 110
[QUOTE=TrueStrengthLiesAbysmallyWithinTheSoul;17889]*ahem* Hello, my name is Motoko. I'm in college. Slaving away. ^__^ I have a question. I've lately found it exceedingly painful in my effort to embrace a simple way of living. My friends want to go and do things. Go to parties, clubs. But I find myself falling further and further from it. It hurts because I miss the buddy atmosphere but similarly I feel like it had become superficial. We were always drinking and trying to entertain eachother. Truth is, I miss just having a good conversation. I miss being able to quietly enjoy eachother's company and relish having a simple yet "sublime meeting of souls". I hope I can find ways to bring that to our friendship. If there is one area that is hardest to keep detached on its friendship. I dread the thought of losing friends. I dread it because I am on a quest to find meaning. To find beauty in life. How can I find it when friendships fade so often?[/QUOTE]

I think your conflict can be framed as quietude v. chaos.  You seek the quietude of a spiritual friendship, while your friends are involved in the more "colorful" life that is full of pleasures of the senses.  "Chaos" isn't necessarily a bad thing, and in the context of the Daoist texts often just means your sense are having too many activities or that your mind is having too many thoughts..  It is just the opposite of quietude.  Yet it is understandable why a person who seeks a meaningful wants to seek quietude -- it is in such a state that one sees himself clearly.

My answer to your question is that it takes time.  One Daoist text mentions five stages of quietude.
Stage one, your life has more chaos than quietude.
Stage two, the amount of chaos in your life and and the amount of quietude in your life are equal.
Stage three, your life has more quietude than chaos.
Stage four, you are in complete quietude as long as your surrounding is not chaotic.
Stage five, you are in complete quietude even if your surrounding is chaotic.

I don't have the full text with me at the moment.  I might try to translate it to explain how one cultivates oneself to gain such quietude.  Many Daoist texts deal with how to achieve quietude, and I have been translating one and posting my translations here (see the thread "lesser known Daoist texts"), and that might help you out in your quest.
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