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Switch to Forum Live View The Two-Witness Rule For Child Molestation Cases
1 year ago  ::  Oct 30, 2015 - 2:00PM #11
Hmmm
Posts: 5,020

Oct 30, 2015 -- 8:56AM, AnnOMaly wrote:


Other related thread for reference:


community.beliefnet.com/go/thread/view/4...


(Much of the argumentation and issues raised here has already been discussed.)



I will defnitely take a look at that thread.

The truth, the whole truth...and nothing but the truth?
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1 year ago  ::  Oct 30, 2015 - 2:05PM #12
Hmmm
Posts: 5,020

Oct 30, 2015 -- 9:09AM, AnnOMaly wrote:


It was deftly brought out by Angus Stewart during the Australian Royal Commission hearing that, in the case of a sex crime (rape in an isolated place like a field), the Mosaic law only needed ONE witness to condemn the criminal. See Deut. 22:25-27. The 'worldly' lawyer had a better handle on scriptural legal precedent than the JW counsel and elders (including the GB).



Hmmm.


Also, since Goodtobehome has flown the coop...does anyone know if she has expressed an opinion on the two-witness rule? I have always found her explanations/rationalizations....um, interesting.

The truth, the whole truth...and nothing but the truth?
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1 year ago  ::  Oct 30, 2015 - 7:28PM #13
Fathomless
Posts: 99

A link I found from Australia's, 'The Drum'. Touches on a few subjects related to the Royal Commission.



www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-10/grundy-fl...





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1 year ago  ::  Oct 31, 2015 - 5:00AM #14
Newtonian
Posts: 14,082

Oct 30, 2015 -- 1:11AM, Kemmer wrote:


Oct 30, 2015 -- 12:52AM, Newtonian wrote:


Well, still up - but faltering/tired.  And I don't know the answer to your question.


I do know I was seriously disciplined when only one witness besides myself was present - on more than one occassion.   Not for child abuse, of course.



I guess you were lucky, way back when, when you had the hots for an 11-year old girl.




I was 11 - she was 10 - and neither of us were baptized yet (1958) - and all we had done was kissed - certainly nothing to be disciplined for - and that is another subject - obviously not child abuse!

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1 year ago  ::  Oct 31, 2015 - 5:34AM #15
Newtonian
Posts: 14,082

Fathomless - Of course, the article is by a former JW - obviously not a good source for accurate information about us.


But thanks for the link - it does demonstrate some of the lies and deceptions our detractors say about us.   From you link - a few excerpts:


1.  Ben Nallay:


10 Aug 2015 1:21:19pm


It's interesting to note how I harbour a much higher resentment towards the political system that misinformed me and hurt me over the years than I did before I started listening to them. The resentment of being lied to and hurt is force to be respected.

Those five points might have some basis in good justice, and when you have been locked away on remand for a year or two waiting for your trial because someone who doesn't like you made a false statement, think about the fact that in any court case proceeding, the only victim is the accused until there is a verdict.

It seems like they have made some positive steps and just question the two witness enhancements. How can a mortal man be totally certain beyond doubt borne on reason that two friends have not been watching too much american tv after school and concocted a story to destroy another innocent soul for reasons unknown?

The purpose of justice is make things better, not worse.


_________________


That is from the perspective of a person who was falsely accused, of course.   Most posters here ignore the fact that many are falsely accused and end up in jail.


2.  A response concerning the false accusation that JW's are not allowed to report child abuse to the authorities  - see our video on this btw (posted above but ignored):


Irenaeus:


14 Aug 2015 2:52:35pm


Jehovah's Witnesses do NOT forbid going to the authorities. That is a lie. What happened in the past might be a different matter in some instances. Most organizations response to these matters, including media organizations, was inadequate for decades.


3.  After continued lies and deceptions posted about us, the same poster set things straight:



Irenaeus:


14 Aug 2015 3:11:49pm


No, the right to exercise one's conscience trumps loyalty to the state. One then may pay a penalty to the state; but in more recent times most western states have not persecuted religious minorities for exercising their conscientious religious duty. Now, this is essentially irrelevant to what is being discussed; protecting pedos is in no way a religious duty of JWs. Therefore, there is no current objection to reporting cases of child abuse to authorities. None. Whether or not JWs take internal sanctions is I believe subject to the 2 witnesses test. Now, these cases are taken very seriously. And any serious evidence, or a criminal conviction, will make a person persona non grata very quickly, especially with parents with children.

______________________



[red highlighting is mine]


I might add that this was in response to a bait and switch debate tactic.   And Jesus' followers did not obey the authorities when it was in conflict with God's law:


(Acts 5:28-32) . . .: “We strictly ordered you not to keep teaching on the basis of this name, and yet look! you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you are determined to bring the blood of this man upon us.” 29 In answer Peter and the other apostles said: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men. 30 The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, whom you killed, hanging him on a stake. 31 God exalted this one as Chief Agent and Savior to his right hand, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are witnesses of these matters, and so is the holy spirit, which God has given to those obeying him as ruler.”


Off subject though - and, getting back to the subject, the holy spirit is active in our judicial system provided the elders pray for direction in handling accusations of child abuse.


And we recognize the authority of governments to punish those guilty of child abuse - as stated in Scripture:


(Romans 13:1-4) 13 Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. 2 Therefore, whoever opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will bring judgment against themselves. 3 For those rulers are an object of fear, not to the good deed, but to the bad. Do you want to be free of fear of the authority? Keep doing good, and you will have praise from it; 4 for it is God’s minister to you for your good. But if you are doing what is bad, be in fear, for it is not without purpose that it bears the sword. It is God’s minister, an avenger to express wrath against the one practicing what is bad.
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