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1 year ago  ::  Oct 29, 2015 - 7:10PM #21
Newtonian
Posts: 14,082

FPD - I was not claiming the commentaries were non-trinitarian.  I simply noted the definitions they noted that we agree with.

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1 year ago  ::  Oct 29, 2015 - 7:18PM #22
Newtonian
Posts: 14,082

Hmmmm - first - reminding you of the cross references in my post 14 - since Biblical usage and cross references are very important in understanding verses like Col.2:9: (my post 14) -


Aug 31, 2015 -- 10:52PM, Newtonian wrote:


Hmmm - You asked:


why doesn't Colossians 2:9 just repeat what Colossians 1:19 says?


(Colossians 2:9) because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily.


(Colossians 1:19) because God was pleased to have all fullness to dwell in him,


Because one Scripture explains/interprets the other - i.e. the Bible interprets itself.  
That is why it is so important to check the cross references!


It is important to note that Jesus' followers also were both sharers of the Divine Nature and of this fullness.


A few of the cross references:


(Colossians 2:3) Carefully concealed in him are all the treasures of wisdom and of knowledge.


(John 1:16) For we all received from his fullness, even undeserved kindness upon undeserved kindness.


(Ephesians 3:18, 19) . . .in order that YOU may be thoroughly able to grasp mentally with all the holy ones what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge, that YOU may be filled with all the fullness that God gives.


(Colossians 2:10) . . .And so YOU are possessed of a fullness by means of him, . . .


(2 Peter 1:3, 4) . . .forasmuch as his divine power has given us freely all the things that concern life and godly devotion, through the accurate knowledge of the one who called us through glory and virtue. 4 Through these things he has freely given us the precious and very grand promises, that through these YOU may become sharers in divine nature, . . .



As I noted in another thread, we now have our interlinear and other Bibles available online, e.g. for Col. 2:9 -


wol.jw.org/en/wol/dx/r1/lp-e/1001061155/...


                                                                                         Reference Bible Col 2:9

  • Kingdom Interlinear Col 2:9
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1 year ago  ::  Oct 29, 2015 - 7:33PM #23
Newtonian
Posts: 14,082

OK, the cut paste malfunctioned - the first translation is NW ref.; the second is our Kingdom Interlinear, the third is KJV.   If you see the link, note Byington reads "dwells in bodily form" - whatever that would mean!


The key here is that we believe divine here is qualatative, as in John 1:1 - and obviously a quality does not actually have a body.


The Greek somatikos has the root soma which means "body" - as 1 Corinthians 15 proves, "body" does not just apply to flesh and blood.


(1 Corinthians 15:35-41) . . .Nevertheless, someone will say: “How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” 36 You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies. 37 And as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but just a bare grain, whether of wheat or of some other kind of seed; 38 but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and gives to each of the seeds its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same flesh, but there is one of mankind, there is another flesh of cattle, another flesh of birds, and another of fish. 40 And there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies; but the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort. 41 The glory of the sun is one sort, and the glory of the moon is another, and the glory of the stars is another; in fact, one star differs from another star in glory.


So heavenly bodies(Greek somata) even include the stars!   And certainly include spirit creatures.


Thayer via E-Sword says of the related adjective (also somatikos):


G4984
σωματικός
sōmatikos
Thayer Definition:
1) corporeal, bodily
1a) having a bodily form or nature
1b) pertaining to the body
Part of Speech: adjeWeymouth New Testament
It is by means of these that He has granted us His precious and wondrous promises, in order that through them you may, one and all, become sharers in the very nature of God, having completely escaped the corruption which exists in the world through earthly cravings.ctive
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4983


And the Scripture cross references above involve the Divine Nature - so this is what we believe - but you can choose to believe otherwise of course.   Just how do you believe the divine quality dwells bodily in others?


For example, 2 Peter 1:4 (above) but now from our Greek English Interlinear:


                                                                                         Kingdom Interlinear 2Pe 1:4

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1 year ago  ::  Oct 30, 2015 - 11:02AM #24
five_point_dad
Posts: 4,719

Oct 29, 2015 -- 7:10PM, Newtonian wrote:

FPD - I was not claiming the commentaries were non-trinitarian.  I simply noted the definitions they noted that we agree with.


But the definitions lead to and actually form the Trinitarian conclusions of the writers.  If you agree with the writeres' rationale, you can't disagree with the conclusions.  Therefore, you either have a very wrong understanding of the Trinity--which is what I have suspected for a long time--or you being less than honest that you agree with the definitions which are Trinitarian in nature. 

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