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Switch to Forum Live View Are we living in the end times?
5 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2013 - 3:39AM #1
Hmmm
Posts: 5,020

Below are quotes from a post in another thread that I thought would make a thread:

Apr 23, 2013 -- 1:59AM, Hmmm wrote:


Apr 21, 2013 -- 4:11AM, Daldianus wrote:


Well, many Christian groups(and not just the pseudo-Christians) believe that we are living in the end times where the present generation will actually witness the end of the world.(Matthew 24:30-34)


lol, EVERY Christian generation, from the start, has been thinking/hoping that they're living in the end times :D They were all wrong, of course. And so will the current and futures generations be.



You make a good point because EVERY Christian generation from the start has been thinking/hoping that they were/are living in the end times. And which also sounds like a good idea for a new topic.


Apr 21, 2013 -- 4:11AM, Daldianus wrote:


Well, with the disturbing conditions in the world today, it certainly makes it tempting for me to want to embrace such a belief again. However, with the type of answers given to questions about babies and children(like the ones above) given by both end-time Christians and pseudo-Christians....in addition to many other unanswerable questions about the Bible, I would say that it would be very difficult for me to want to embrace the 'Second Coming during your lifetime' belief again.


Disturbing conditions? Never has the world been better than today.



Really? Do you think so? And I'm not talking about medical and technological advances, but I'm talking about the moral and spiritual condition of the world we live in.


And even the truly pathetic eating habits and the major health problems that it has spawned(that Ebon and I had touched on for a moment in another thread) in the wealthiest country in the world(the United States), is a very big indicator of a huge 'spiritual' deficiency that we have in this country. Also, the shocking and out-of-control violence, which seems to almost be viewed as normal, is very indicative that something is seriously wrong with this country and the world.


Plus, when I was in high school, it wasn't the norm that some of the kids would bring guns to school one day and massacre many of the other students. That just didn't exist when I was in high school.


Also, this is the first time in human history where we have the technology and the capacity to completely obliterate ourselves from the planet. As a matter of fact, they have something called the 'Doomsday Clock' which is a symbolic clock face used by the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists to gauge "the state of existential global threats to civilization."  


(To read more about the 'Doomsday Clock', click here and here.)


Also, I think that this would make another good topic for a thread as to whether the conditions in the world seem to fulfill end-time Bible prophecies....or if things in the world have never been better than today...as Daldi said.



Therefore, I've read the arguments that we are not living in the last days because Jesus' prophecies in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 are 'general' catastrophes that could apply to any generation. However, I have never participated in a full fledged discussion about this topic.


Therefore, please share your viewpoints and opinions on this controversial topic.



The truth, the whole truth...and nothing but the truth?
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2013 - 3:42AM #2
Daldianus
Posts: 32,447

No, we are not.


But each generation of Christians over the last 2000 years has, of course, thought they were living in the end times. They've all been wrong and they will all be wrong.

>> Feed your brain with awesome!
“After your death you will be what you were before your birth.” - Arthur Schopenhauer
"Eternity is very long, especially towards the end." - Woody Allen
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2013 - 6:55AM #3
Iwantamotto
Posts: 9,234

It's always the end of something and the beginning of something.  Life is ever in flux.  :)

Knock and the door shall open.  It's not my fault if you don't like the decor.
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2013 - 8:05AM #4
koolpoi
Posts: 7,169

Apr 23, 2013 -- 6:55AM, Iwantamotto wrote:


It's always the end of something and the beginning of something.  Life is ever in flux.  :)




Maybe hardcore Christians should take a vacation from their dogma and study some Buddhism or Daoism.They would think more like you.

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5 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2013 - 10:35AM #5
Gacogal
Posts: 1,527

Every day that passes takes us closer to "our" end-time. We don't get do-overs. So the question we should be asking ourselves is, what are we doing with the days we have?

Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it. (Proverbs 4:23)
What you say flows from what is in your heart. (Luke 6:45b)
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2013 - 11:07AM #6
F1fan
Posts: 13,500

A lot of Christians do not get attracted to this kind of thinking, and as I understand them they explain how much of the paranoia comes out of an interpretation of Revelations.  They also acknowledge that scholars believe that book refers to events within the first century, and Nero as the Beast.  All that sounds exceptionally rational, and allows modern Christians to apply the virtues of their religion to their life in a way that is meaningful and has hope for the future.


Those who have been attracted to the idea of End Times seems quite insecure, fearful, and even narcissistic.  There really is nothing in the Bible that suggests nothing has happened via a god's influence or intervention, nor that anything is going to happen.  The Raptrure simply makes no sense given the history of humanity thus far.  I'd suggest the only Christians worth saving would be those who don't believe in Rapture.  Ironic.


The whole idea of Rapture is quite anti-Christ.  It aims to bias in favor of a certain group at the cost of everyone else.  The psychology of this attitude is disturbing.  It suggests such an insecure faith that believers are willing to accept the deaths of billions of people just to make their religion seem more relevant and true.  I don't see how spiritual people can think this is a healthy way to think.  I would suggest they are not spiritual at all, and simply dogmatists.  These can be very dangerous people.

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5 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2013 - 12:40PM #7
JimRigas
Posts: 2,950

Apr 23, 2013 -- 10:35AM, Gacogal wrote:


Every day that passes takes us closer to "our" end-time. We don't get do-overs. So the question we should be asking ourselves is, what are we doing with the days we have?





Bravo!

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5 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2013 - 2:54PM #8
Jenandew7
Posts: 15,945

Apr 23, 2013 -- 10:35AM, Gacogal wrote:


Every day that passes takes us closer to "our" end-time. We don't get do-overs. So the question we should be asking ourselves is, what are we doing with the days we have?




That's the best stance toward the end-times.

If you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday. --Isaiah 58:10
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2013 - 3:13PM #9
Jenandew7
Posts: 15,945

Apr 23, 2013 -- 3:39AM, Hmmm wrote:



Therefore, I've read the arguments that we are not living in the last days because Jesus' prophecies in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 are 'general' catastrophes that could apply to any generation. However, I have never participated in a full fledged discussion about this topic.


Therefore, please share your viewpoints and opinions on this controversial topic.




They aren't general at all if you know the history of what occurred to the Jews in the first and second centuries.  And it was pretty much as Jesus described it:  the abomination of the desolation.


First, Jesus was specific when he referred to the birth pangs of a new ag beginning--that cannot be reference to the end of time!


The fall of the Temple occurred in 70 AD.  To the Jewish people this was a major catastrophe, because they can only have one temple in one place on earth.  Besides that, it was caused by another Jewish revolt of which there were several.  Early Jewish Christianity disappeared in Jeruselem and its environs at about that time as far as can be assertained.  However, there were two more revolts.  One occurred approximately 10 years into the next century (Revelation was written in 90 to 110 AD by best estimates and so it may relate to some of these events.)  And the last and final one occurred, iirc, from 132-135 CE.  This was called the bar Kokhba revolt and the Jews saw him as their Messiah!  Rome decimated Jerusalem and put to the sword, burned and destroyed 150 cities and towns.  The diaspora began through these revolts, but the Jews fled, they took no more than they could carry, they hid in caves and where the carrion fowl hovered in the air over the dead was a warning where to avoid going and that the Romans had been in the area recently. 


PBS has a nice program about the Cave of Letters and the archeological investigation of where bar Kohkbah and his closest followers hid out in the very end.   And there are a lot of good articles on this period of Jewish history to be found on the net.  


Why all prophecy would pertain to people living 2000 years into the future is beyond me!

If you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday. --Isaiah 58:10
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5 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2013 - 3:36PM #10
miknik5
Posts: 7,684

Annie wrote:Why all prophecy would pertain to people living 2000 years into the future is beyond me!


I respond: Unless of course you had understood, then it wouldn't have been beyond you.


 

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