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Switch to Forum Live View Jewish Anti-Muslim sentiment
5 years ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 3:01AM #1
wallyallen
Posts: 21

Hello,


I know that the vast amount of Jews are NOT Anti-Muslim and are good people.  Here i am talking of people who in my opinion are Anti-Muslim, the likes of Bat Ye'or, Latma TV, JDL thugs who refer to Arabs as Amalekites, Pamela Geller and etc. 



Where does this hatred come from, how much of it is theological?  Is it rooted in the middle east conflict? Then how comes they have a problem with Muslims who are not Palestinian or Arab?  Is this a reaction to Muslim anti-Semitism? 



It would be absurd to deny that they are fringe Jewish elements who make a lot of noise about Muslim, as there Muslim anti-Semites.

We do talk about Islamic anti-Semitism because it has some historical basis, but Jewish anti-Muslimism , is something that is much more modern.  So I thought it would be good to talk about it.  


 Again talking about a fringe element.


 
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 9:55AM #2
ffb
Posts: 2,356

I think some stems from 2 sources -- the first is historic Muslim anti-semitism dating back to the origination date of Islam and the subsequent treatment of Jews under Islamic law; this theological base cuts across a variety of borders and times. The second is the more recent connection between Islam and the middle East conflict. The association of Islam with the theocracies and ostensible democracies which have plagued Israel since before its modern  reconstitution on political-religious grounds leads to a knee jerk anti-Islamic sense mostly as it relates to the Arab world (however, with anti-West sentiment presented by Islam elsewhere, this geo-political struggle is spreading as well).

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5 years ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 9:59AM #3
Lilwabbit
Posts: 3,409

Dec 27, 2012 -- 9:55AM, ffb wrote:


I think some stems from 2 sources -- the first is historic Muslim anti-semitism dating back to the origination date of Islam and the subsequent treatment of Jews under Islamic law; this theological base cuts across a variety of borders and times. The second is the more recent connection between Islam and the middle East conflict. The association of Islam with the theocracies and ostensible democracies which have plagued Israel since before its modern  reconstitution on political-religious grounds leads to a knee jerk anti-Islamic sense mostly as it relates to the Arab world (however, with anti-West sentiment presented by Islam elsewhere, this geo-political struggle is spreading as well).




Albeit understandable, do you personally think such hatred is morally justified?

"All things have I willed for you, and you too, for your own sake."
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 10:16AM #4
ffb
Posts: 2,356

Dec 27, 2012 -- 9:59AM, Lilwabbit wrote:

Dec 27, 2012 -- 9:55AM, ffb wrote:


I think some stems from 2 sources -- the first is historic Muslim anti-semitism dating back to the origination date of Islam and the subsequent treatment of Jews under Islamic law; this theological base cuts across a variety of borders and times. The second is the more recent connection between Islam and the middle East conflict. The association of Islam with the theocracies and ostensible democracies which have plagued Israel since before its modern  reconstitution on political-religious grounds leads to a knee jerk anti-Islamic sense mostly as it relates to the Arab world (however, with anti-West sentiment presented by Islam elsewhere, this geo-political struggle is spreading as well).




Albeit understandable, do you personally think such hatred is morally justified?


I'm not sure if ANY hatred is morally justifiable.

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5 years ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 10:17AM #5
Lilwabbit
Posts: 3,409

Dec 27, 2012 -- 10:16AM, ffb wrote:

Dec 27, 2012 -- 9:59AM, Lilwabbit wrote:


Dec 27, 2012 -- 9:55AM, ffb wrote:


I think some stems from 2 sources -- the first is historic Muslim anti-semitism dating back to the origination date of Islam and the subsequent treatment of Jews under Islamic law; this theological base cuts across a variety of borders and times. The second is the more recent connection between Islam and the middle East conflict. The association of Islam with the theocracies and ostensible democracies which have plagued Israel since before its modern  reconstitution on political-religious grounds leads to a knee jerk anti-Islamic sense mostly as it relates to the Arab world (however, with anti-West sentiment presented by Islam elsewhere, this geo-political struggle is spreading as well).




Albeit understandable, do you personally think such hatred is morally justified?




I'm not sure if ANY hatred is morally justifiable.




Amen.

"All things have I willed for you, and you too, for your own sake."
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 12:49PM #6
river8101
Posts: 5,587

What God looks like has never been described because nobody's ever seen God. though the master painters and sculpters conceived of God as male.  But we don't really know whether God is male of female.  Nobody knows.  Therefore those religions who use the pronoun "he" when they mention God, thinks their God is male or a male spirit. (whatever that is)


Christians believe that Jesus was God or part of God in a threesome.  Therefore, I suppose that's how God, in Christianity see God as male.  But other religions do also. Pagans saw gods and goddesses, therefore they saw their god in both sexes.   I don't see God as male or female or any idol, which usually shows the modern God looking human and like a man.   I simply don't know what God may look like, or if there is one. 


The truth being that nobody has ever seen God, except in their imagination. Each entity is created from the thought.  We have often heard it said that thoughts are things, and there are many among us who are persuaded the truth of this statement. Yet very few of us have any clear idea as to what kind of thing a thought is.

“Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject.”
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 4:07PM #7
Dostojevsky
Posts: 9,063

 "I know that the vast amount of Jews are NOT Anti-Muslim and are good people. Here i am talking of people who in my opinion are Anti-Muslim, the likes of Bat Ye'or, Latma TV, JDL thugs who refer to Arabs as Amalekites, Pamela Geller and etc." 


Israel is surrounded with Muslim countries and  only hate and attributing injustices real and perceived towards those peole  keeps population under compliance and the resultant approval for their Gov. to bully around anyone who's in the way.


Jews might be good people, but supporting their own is first and foremost.


They have dealt with Christianity who either turn the other cheek or blindly support Jews/Israel. Muslims are a challange. People like Pamela Gellar has done dis-service to her own people by showing the hateful side of Jews; this in New York where she has full freedoms, unlike Muslims/Chtistians who do not in a Jewish  Israel.


 


 


 

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5 years ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 7:18PM #8
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 19,045

I am sorry but the premise is garbage.


1. Latma is a political comedy group. It is not anti-anything and certainly not anti-Islam. You may not find them funny, but they are comedy.


2. Pam Geller is actually pro-Islam. Of course you actually have to know the difference between extremist Islam as enunciated by Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, KSA, Iran, etc... (which she is against) and non-extremist Islam which she really does not care about and never discusses. 


3. Bat Yeor was an historian who explained the basic racist ideology of Islam, which is seen in the institution of Dhimi. The Dhimi system is religiously based discrimination and was designed to suppress, oppress and eventually obliterate Jews and Christians. It was and is 100% evil as are those who support it. (You will find many supportes of the Dhimi system here on B'Net) the Dhimi system was also the blueprint for Christian suppression and oppression of Jews in the middle ages (a gift from Islam to the Jews) Bat Yeor was in part reacting to the rosy glasses view of earlier historians towards Islam. The rosy glasses view of Islam was a means of criticizing the behavior of Christian Europe. There are those who believe Bat Yeor was over reacting.    


Judaism is not anti-Islam but Islam is decidedly anti-Jewish and most Muslims are decidedly antisemitic. Basically, if a group's holy books calls Jews monkeys and apes, says Jews are cursed, that Jews are liars, etc. and call for genocide it is pretty clear that they are antisemitic. Are we, as Jews,supposed to say, I'm not opposed to that?



Islam says that it reveres the "earlier" revelations found in the Hebrew Bible and in the Christian Bible. there is very little evidence that they actually do so, other than the wholesale adoption of each and every anti-semitic passage and thought found in the Christian Gospels. those few Muslims who actually read the bible will read the Christian Bible not the Hebrew Bible.


As a result of the ingrained antisemtisim of the Quran, the Hadith and Muslim culture and as a result of the supremacist ideology of Islam there are a lot of Muslims who are anti-semitic. Even many who deny their antisemitism (again there are a number of those here on B'Net) subscribe to completely antisemitic ideas. 


On the other hand, it is not a completely hopeless situation. You have to remember that Christianity also suffered from deeply ingrained antisemitism which has largely disappeared from "official" Christianity. This slow change began with the enlightenment and gained steam after the Holocaust, which was a demonstration to the world of the result of antisemitism. While the process of eliminating antisemitism from Islam began more recently, there are a number of streams of Islamic thought and a number of Muslim "denominations" which either ignore or downplay the antisemitic aspects of Islam to a large extent. Because of the threat posed by those groups which maintain and expand the antisemitism found within Islam these are not the groups which we hear most about.


Moderated by Bunsinspace on Jan 01, 2013 - 12:55AM
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 7:28PM #9
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 19,045

Lilwabbit


It is not hatred to be opposed to those who hate you.


It is not hatred to be opposed to those who inveigh against you.


It is not hatred to be opposed to those who oppressed you and would oppress you again.


It is not hatred to be opposed to those who call for your death and who would kill you.


It is not hatred to be opposed to those Muslim groups (which some of Muslims would say are not Muslim anyway) who do the things listed above.


Moderated by Merope on Jan 16, 2013 - 04:21AM
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 27, 2012 - 8:36PM #10
wallyallen
Posts: 21

Again we are not tlaking about Islamic extremesism here, I think the Jerusalem Post wrote an article defending the ideology but rejecting the methodolgy of Anders Brievik.  Where does the hate come towards the average Muslim who just wants to pay his mortage and look after his family?


Why is this happening


Earlier this year, Newsweek ran a story about this phenomenon titled “Europe’s Extreme Righteous: Far-right European politicians find love—and common cause—in Israel.” It opened with three politicians, “a Belgian politician known for his contacts with SS veterans, an Austrian with neo-Nazi ties, and a Swede whose political party has deep roots in Swedish fascism,” visiting the Holocaust museum Yad Vashem. They met with members of the Knesset and signed something called the Jerusalem declaration, which affirmed, “We stand at the vanguard in the fight for the Western, democratic community” against the “totalitarian threat” of Islamic fundamentalism.




www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/07/2...



They are people doing good work (the vast majority), although i have a problems with the word 'Islamophobia'.


www.jewsagainstislamophobia.org/

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