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Switch to Forum Live View Where Is Cherubino Now?
1 year ago  ::  Nov 30, 2012 - 11:01AM #81
StephenK.Adams
Posts: 1,478

Nov 29, 2012 -- 1:57PM, TemplarS wrote:


You know, I've always believed that there is no dichotomy between this life and the next, whatever it might be.  I think this was an integral part of Jesus' teaching also; he spoke of God's will being done on earth as well as heaven; he spoke of the Kingdon of God as being among us. 


I think this reflects what Becket says; the upshot is, you live your life here, and if you live it well, that is its own reward; if that follows you someplace else, so be it. 


But in any case:


"Where is Cherubino now?"


This long thread makes it clear that he is still here- and still very much alive. And not just in the trivial sense of a static memory.


His words, his stories, his ideas- are still with us.  And they are alive: in our brains, they interact with our own ideas, conjugate, breed new ideas and thoughts as surely as people breed physical children.  And as they are alive- so is he.


I do not know if there is, for a person, conscious life after death.  But there surely is life.  And if you consider that this goes on generation upon generation, as long as people are around: maybe this is not far from what Stephen's philosophy is about either.






I especially like the words that appear in the paragraph which is second from the last in TemplarS above post.   Because of him (Cher)  maybe I finally have come to realize that there are many people on this website with brilliant ideas, not just Cherubino.   I think the above posts by TemplarS, Mokantx, Seraphimr and Gilig are perfect examples of my above comment.


In spite of our many flaws, I do believe that the human race has the capacity to live in a much higher level of peace and harmony than that which we are now experiencing.   It is the correct use of the intellectual powers that evolution has given us that will make the above "pollyannic" hopes become more realistic.



Long ago Cherubino told me off and threatened to bar me from this site if I did not stop being so arrogant and aggressive.   I was so impressed by his intellect, his fair and decent demeanor, that I decided that I should take his advice.   I think I am a better person today because of him.   I love the human race and I want to see us live in harmony and increase our knowledge to give us a chance to become immortal.   Not for any one of us individually, but rather, --- for the human race itself.

We have nothing to fear except our lack of understanding of fear itself.
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1 year ago  ::  Nov 30, 2012 - 11:36AM #82
GodtheFather
Posts: 8,762

Nov 29, 2012 -- 2:27PM, mokantx wrote:


Nov 29, 2012 -- 1:57PM, TemplarS wrote:


You know, I've always believed that there is no dichotomy between this life and the next, whatever it might be.  I think this was an integral part of Jesus' teaching also; he spoke of God's will being done on earth as well as heaven; he spoke of the Kingdon of God as being among us. 


I think this reflects what Becket says; the upshot is, you live your life here, and if you live it well, that is its own reward; if that follows you someplace else, so be it. 


But in any case:


"Where is Cherubino now?"


This long thread makes it clear that he is still here- and still very much alive. And not just in the trivial sense of a static memory.


His words, his stories, his ideas- are still with us.  And they are alive: in our brains, they interact with our own ideas, conjugate, breed new ideas and thoughts as surely as people breed physical children.  And as they are alive- so is he.


I do not know if there is, for a person, conscious life after death.  But there surely is life.  And if you consider that this goes on generation upon generation, as long as people are around: maybe this is not far from what Stephen's philosophy is about either.




Temp


As usual, very well put.


This area of thought is one that many have explored, in many ways, and for a very long time. 


I've heard/read some who think that something akin to a societal consciousness (including our collective wisdom, though, expressions of art, etc.) are in fact "God," or at a minimum, a primary expression of God  There are echoes of this in the Kabbalistic approach, as well as that of Tielhard de Chardin's work, and that of many others.  The concept is explored in our Science Fiction (think Star Trek's "Borg"), and in many areas of our arts and literature.



I think that most mature people spend at least some of their life considering, and seeking some meaning to it all.  The concept of an afterlife (classical form) is quite enticing, and comforting.  Yet what lies right before our eyes, is the awareness of a form of "progress" for human-kind, from our early origins, through development of languages, art, ethics/morality, philosophy, religion, the sciences, engineering, cities, etc.  As often as we seek "proof" of an afterlife, it seems to me that this human Progress (as flawed and "bursty" as it is) could be seen as evidence of the form of afterlife that you described. We not only can intellectualize this, but it hits us on a very personal level.  Who among us, with children, does not want to give our children whatever wisdom we have leaned in our lives, in hopes that our kids can build on that wisdom, and somehow go further with it, somehow be just a little bit better (whatever that might mean to us?)  It seems pretty obvious to me that can neither affect things that happened before, nor do I know anything about what comes after my life.  All I CAN do, is to live as best as I can in the moment, and to in some small way, try to leave the place just a little better for my being here.


And perhaps in parallel with this kind of though, is that line of thinking which suggests that "God" exists as the fundamental laws of physics and nature, and the "language" of that God is mathematics.  Again, what we learn through science could be seen as evidence of that model as well.



Cherub left us a rich legacy.  His legacy speaks to each of us in a little different way perhaps, but I think we are all richer for the way he challenged what and how we might think.  None of us were spared, yet all of us were treated well (unless our actions began to impinge on the rights of others...)   And perhaps the glue that could hold that legacy together so well for many of us, was Cher's sense of humor.


 





Momma always said, "Death is just another part of life", the famous oxymoron from Forrest Gump. We see life from our POV from our age of memory till our last breath.  


My POV changed in July 2001 when the spirit of a dead 19yo college student jumped in my body for about 10secs or the length of time it took to cross halfway across my kitchen floor with baby steps. During this episode I had little control over my body and I felt extremely cold as he spoke in a monotone through me about the carjack and killing of an elderly man and then himself. Then he told about a person unknown to anyone that was dead near a campsite in New Hampshire. When I came out of it, I was convinced I needed to contact the police however my wife told me to wait 24 hours and if i still felt strongly about to call then. The next day on the Sunday night news was the story about Gary Sampson who gave himself up in Vermont and had admitted to to carjacking and killing an elderly man and later a 19 yo college student both of which had been reported missing on the news during the week. No one knew about the man killed at the campsite he had frequented during his youth except for me. I've had other experiences with the departed since then but none like this one.


The spirit of a friend who died from a long bout of cancer contacted me on the day of her wake. As I turned on the bathroom light still half asleep she told me, "You have loved her forever." I replied, Yes I have.


I was contacted by a spirit at my place of work multiple times who has been dead for decades. Twice while washing my hands the other auto sink faucet went on in the mens room I was using two days apart and on two different days and there was no one else there. One day he asked me "How much longer?"I replied, Soon.


More recently my friends father died and as my friend came to our table at the reception to join his wife his father told me, "I didn't know. Why didn't you tell me?" I replied, what was i going to say. He said, "Yeah your right, your right." 


Most of us see things in the here and now with no continuation once our hearts stop beating and our brain waves flat line but we continue on into another dimension that is beside us or more accurately all around us. Some of us get stuck or trapped possibly by demons or the curcumstances of our deaths while others ascend into the light or heaven? Or is that just a stopping point before we return? Is purgatory this adjustment period after death and before ascending ? It seems so to me.


As for Cherub, I believe he had already ascended before we even knew of his departure. He was one of the few people I met on this board who were awake and alive so it doesn't surprise me that he would ascend quickly.


Consciousness is apart of death, it just doesn't follow us back into life at birth.


Thats what we lost in the Garden when it all fell apart.

The best lack all conviction yet the worst are filled with passionate intensity.

Yates
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1 year ago  ::  Nov 30, 2012 - 11:53AM #83
gilg
Posts: 5,199

Nov 30, 2012 -- 10:45AM, SeraphimR wrote:


Nov 30, 2012 -- 10:16AM, gilg wrote:


Templar, Mo,


 You have essentially described my sense of the Kingdom in a better way than I can. Thanks.


 I am not sure how it went about but the day came when I gave to charity or avoided doing something not quite kosher simply because I was moved to do so, not because the fear of hell motivated me. Something similar happen to other thoughts and behaviors. It is not the fear of hell that moves me today, sometimes it is this sense of love (for lack of a better word) towards others, sometimes it is because not doing the right thing ends up making me less than happy, and mostly because it isn't a big inconvenience doing so, i.e., similar to the business saying, doing the right thing is the cost of  living in this world.  The message, the Good News, that I have internalized is that over the long run doing good, The Golden Rule, is the key to happiness and internal peace. And yes, I am a sinner and so I am not always in a state of joy and when I am not, I am not in a state of fear.


 There have been many incidents and encounters with self and others that have changed my view of the Kingdom and of the here and now and of the afterlife. Perhaps a couple of the most significant ones were:  1) Reading the Desert Father and Mothers, particularly the prayer: God, give me whatever it is I need - this is such a powerful prayer (St Anthony of the Desert) and it leads to peace and seeing that even when one prays for others, one is simply showing a distrust of God and worse, one is asking God to change others so they conform to our image of who they ought to be: and 2),  Going off to fight a "Holy War" and discovering that there is no such thing - Bishop Spellman and others were liars and if a bishop can lie then about war - one of the most intimate encounters between people - then they can deceive us in other ways. The bottom line is it led to the rejection that any human is infallible and that ultimately, whether I do right or wrong is between me and God, I can't blame it on what a religious or secular authority told me to do.


 


  SeraphimR


I've heard that a person dies three times:  The day he dies. The day the last person who knew him dies. The day his name is spoken for the last time.


So if a 1000 years from now, someone runs aross a book you wrote and says your name, is this a Resurrection?




Will there be books in a thousand years?


But no, not a resurection, you just have yet to die the final time.


But I don't think it was meant to be taken so literally.





  Seraphim,


I was playing.


As far as books in a 1000 years, why not? Perhaps the books will be in some type of digital form but as long as we exist we will continue being creative (approaching the divine) and so books in some form or another will exist. As Christ said, only the Father knows when the world will end so I don't believe the nonsense of end times....


 

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1 year ago  ::  Dec 02, 2012 - 1:33PM #84
mokantx
Posts: 3,813

Nov 30, 2012 -- 11:36AM, GodtheFather wrote:




Momma always said, "Death is just another part of life", the famous oxymoron from Forrest Gump. We see life from our POV from our age of memory till our last breath.  


My POV changed in July 2001 when the spirit of a dead 19yo college student jumped in my body for about 10secs or the length of time it took to cross halfway across my kitchen floor with baby steps. During this episode I had little control over my body and I felt extremely cold as he spoke in a monotone through me about the carjack and killing of an elderly man and then himself. Then he told about a person unknown to anyone that was dead near a campsite in New Hampshire. When I came out of it, I was convinced I needed to contact the police however my wife told me to wait 24 hours and if i still felt strongly about to call then. The next day on the Sunday night news was the story about Gary Sampson who gave himself up in Vermont and had admitted to to carjacking and killing an elderly man and later a 19 yo college student both of which had been reported missing on the news during the week. No one knew about the man killed at the campsite he had frequented during his youth except for me. I've had other experiences with the departed since then but none like this one.


The spirit of a friend who died from a long bout of cancer contacted me on the day of her wake. As I turned on the bathroom light still half asleep she told me, "You have loved her forever." I replied, Yes I have.


I was contacted by a spirit at my place of work multiple times who has been dead for decades. Twice while washing my hands the other auto sink faucet went on in the mens room I was using two days apart and on two different days and there was no one else there. One day he asked me "How much longer?"I replied, Soon.


More recently my friends father died and as my friend came to our table at the reception to join his wife his father told me, "I didn't know. Why didn't you tell me?" I replied, what was i going to say. He said, "Yeah your right, your right." 


Most of us see things in the here and now with no continuation once our hearts stop beating and our brain waves flat line but we continue on into another dimension that is beside us or more accurately all around us. Some of us get stuck or trapped possibly by demons or the curcumstances of our deaths while others ascend into the light or heaven? Or is that just a stopping point before we return? Is purgatory this adjustment period after death and before ascending ? It seems so to me.


As for Cherub, I believe he had already ascended before we even knew of his departure. He was one of the few people I met on this board who were awake and alive so it doesn't surprise me that he would ascend quickly.


Consciousness is apart of death, it just doesn't follow us back into life at birth.


Thats what we lost in the Garden when it all fell apart.




I have always found the world of the "paranormal" (known by many names) to be fascinating.  Regardless how presented, or whether we personally believe in it or not, the concept and set of phenomenon has been around for a long time, in most cultures across the globe. What does this mean?



i liked your use of the word "dimension."  I do not rule out the mathematical concept of the multidimensional universe.   Just as a shadow on a piece of paper can be seen as a 2-dimensional projection of a 3-dimensional space, perhaps life as WE know it is but a projection of a multi-dimensional life onto a 3 (or 4 if you include time) dimensional  world.  In that context, perhaps angels, or other incidents of the "paranormal" could be as simple as something normally in another dimension projecting (albeit briefly) into our 3 dimensions.



i suspect that this model is not liked, and may even be feared by some religious, as a threat to THEIR model.   But I have no problem seeing the concept as but another explanation of something, and an explanation that to me, makes a great deal of sense.  Nor do I see this kind of explanation as in any way, diminishing or reducing the concept of God.



At this point, I think I need to be open to all such models, at least until I know more...

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1 year ago  ::  Dec 09, 2012 - 12:07AM #85
GodtheFather
Posts: 8,762

Dec 2, 2012 -- 1:33PM, mokantx wrote:


Nov 30, 2012 -- 11:36AM, GodtheFather wrote:




Momma always said, "Death is just another part of life", the famous oxymoron from Forrest Gump. We see life from our POV from our age of memory till our last breath.  


My POV changed in July 2001 when the spirit of a dead 19yo college student jumped in my body for about 10secs or the length of time it took to cross halfway across my kitchen floor with baby steps. During this episode I had little control over my body and I felt extremely cold as he spoke in a monotone through me about the carjack and killing of an elderly man and then himself. Then he told about a person unknown to anyone that was dead near a campsite in New Hampshire. When I came out of it, I was convinced I needed to contact the police however my wife told me to wait 24 hours and if i still felt strongly about to call then. The next day on the Sunday night news was the story about Gary Sampson who gave himself up in Vermont and had admitted to to carjacking and killing an elderly man and later a 19 yo college student both of which had been reported missing on the news during the week. No one knew about the man killed at the campsite he had frequented during his youth except for me. I've had other experiences with the departed since then but none like this one.


The spirit of a friend who died from a long bout of cancer contacted me on the day of her wake. As I turned on the bathroom light still half asleep she told me, "You have loved her forever." I replied, Yes I have.


I was contacted by a spirit at my place of work multiple times who has been dead for decades. Twice while washing my hands the other auto sink faucet went on in the mens room I was using two days apart and on two different days and there was no one else there. One day he asked me "How much longer?"I replied, Soon.


More recently my friends father died and as my friend came to our table at the reception to join his wife his father told me, "I didn't know. Why didn't you tell me?" I replied, what was i going to say. He said, "Yeah your right, your right." 


Most of us see things in the here and now with no continuation once our hearts stop beating and our brain waves flat line but we continue on into another dimension that is beside us or more accurately all around us. Some of us get stuck or trapped possibly by demons or the curcumstances of our deaths while others ascend into the light or heaven? Or is that just a stopping point before we return? Is purgatory this adjustment period after death and before ascending ? It seems so to me.


As for Cherub, I believe he had already ascended before we even knew of his departure. He was one of the few people I met on this board who were awake and alive so it doesn't surprise me that he would ascend quickly.


Consciousness is apart of death, it just doesn't follow us back into life at birth.


Thats what we lost in the Garden when it all fell apart.




I have always found the world of the "paranormal" (known by many names) to be fascinating.  Regardless how presented, or whether we personally believe in it or not, the concept and set of phenomenon has been around for a long time, in most cultures across the globe. What does this mean?



i liked your use of the word "dimension."  I do not rule out the mathematical concept of the multidimensional universe.   Just as a shadow on a piece of paper can be seen as a 2-dimensional projection of a 3-dimensional space, perhaps life as WE know it is but a projection of a multi-dimensional life onto a 3 (or 4 if you include time) dimensional  world.  In that context, perhaps angels, or other incidents of the "paranormal" could be as simple as something normally in another dimension projecting (albeit briefly) into our 3 dimensions.



i suspect that this model is not liked, and may even be feared by some religious, as a threat to THEIR model.   But I have no problem seeing the concept as but another explanation of something, and an explanation that to me, makes a great deal of sense.  Nor do I see this kind of explanation as in any way, diminishing or reducing the concept of God.



At this point, I think I need to be open to all such models, at least until I know more...





Mo,


you have a very good understanding with this model comprised of multiple dimensions.


From my understanding, research and experience, time is eternal not linear and space can be travelled near instantaneously on the other side. It is outside of the visible spectrum of light (ROY G BIV) with infrared on one side and ultraviolet on the other. This is why we can't normally view a spirit unless it enters the visible spectrum. A spirit gives off energy when it attempts to enter the visible spectrum of light. As it gives off energy (electromagnetic) it cools and it takes on substance like the particulate in the air which makes an apparition. 


 

The best lack all conviction yet the worst are filled with passionate intensity.

Yates
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