Scientific Achievements and Religion

Jcarlinbn

Posts: 6,930

Moved from Community thread.

Aug 6, 2012 -- 2:57AM, steven_guy wrote:
a dark moment for the dark forces of theism.

Lavengro

Posts: 496

Er... In what way?

steven_guy

Posts: 9,922

All scientific achievement is.

Jcarlinbn, community moderator

JCarlin

Posts: 4,906

Aug 6, 2012 -- 2:57AM, steven_guy wrote:
a dark moment for the dark forces of theism.

Lavengro

Er... In what way?

steven_guy

All scientific achievement is.

To the extent that some, certainly not all, religions try to discourage science and other "Higher Order Thinking Skills" as undermining the teachings of the church, any spectacular science achievement featuring higher order thinking skills, will cause questioning by the believers. Especially the youth might be seduced by a highly publicised science feat and even question the denials by the church leadership.

J'Carlin
If the shoe doesn't fit, don't cram your foot in it and complain.

teilhard

Posts: 43,035

Yes ...

It is unfortunate that SOME Persons have tried to use "Religion" to impede "Science," just as SOME Persons try to use "Science" to undermine "Religion" ...

BOTH Mistakes are based upon (perhaps) Good Intentions, but are tragically WRONG-Headed ...

As a good Buddhy of mine once wisely-wryly commented, "Good Intentions are well-known for their excelent Paving Qualities ..."

JCarlin

Posts: 4,906

Aug 6, 2012 -- 9:39PM, teilhard wrote:
It is unfortunate that SOME Persons have tried to use "Religion" to impede "Science," just as SOME Persons try to use "Science" to undermine "Religion" ...

It is hard to see how science can undermine religion, as science does not even take a position on myth and fantasy. An example would be useful.

J'Carlin
If the shoe doesn't fit, don't cram your foot in it and complain.

teilhard

Posts: 43,035

As you know by now, I FULLY understand -- I have LONG understood and RELENTLESSLY posted -- that "Science" certainly does NOT "undermine Religion" ...

But, unfortunately, as I noted in my Post (below), " ... SOME Persons TRY to USE 'Science' to undermine 'Religion' ..."

In my experienced Opinion, such Persons grossly misunderestimate BOTH "Science" AND "Religion" ...

Aug 6, 2012 -- 11:03PM, JCarlin wrote:

Aug 6, 2012 -- 9:39PM, teilhard wrote:
It is unfortunate that SOME Persons have tried to use "Religion" to impede "Science," just as SOME Persons try to use "Science" to undermine "Religion" ...

It is hard to see how science can undermine religion, as science does not even take a position on myth and fantasy. An example would be useful.

steven_guy

Posts: 11,136

Aug 6, 2012 -- 11:25PM, Aka_me wrote:
nothing says these youths move to the belief there is no God, they could just as easily change to a different theology.

You haven't learnt anything here, have you? In all the time we've explained what atheism is and isn't you haven't been paying attention, have you? Or are you simply trolling the group?

JCarlin

Posts: 4,906

Aug 6, 2012 -- 11:25PM, Aka_me wrote:
nothing says these youths move to the belief there is no God, they could just as easily change to a different theology.

No one has said that they move to no God. However, thinking about a dogmatic faith which discourages higher level thinking skills, leads to questioning all about the religion including God. They may even read the bible "under the covers" and come to their own conclusions about the God depicted therein. That is never good from a faith standpoint, but whether it leads to a different God or no god depends on the person and herm reception by the faithful in the milk church.

J'Carlin
If the shoe doesn't fit, don't cram your foot in it and complain.

mountain_man

Posts: 34,488

Aug 6, 2012 -- 11:36PM, steven_guy wrote:
You haven't learnt anything here, have you? In all the time we've explained what atheism is and isn't you haven't been paying attention, have you? Or are you simply trolling the group?

Of course he's trolling the group. Some believers just cannot grasp the concept that others don't believe in gods. They have a psychotic need to come up with rationalizations, lies they tell themselves, in order to protect their god beliefs from any form of rational, honest, inquiry. In this case they need to see choosing to be an Atheist is nothing but a whim. I, nor anyone else I know, chose to be an Atheist. I looked at the facts and they made the choice for me, or actually, I had no choice but to not believe in gods. There's no reason to.

As for scientific achievement; it's been made in spite of religions trying to stifle it.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.

cptspith

Posts: 2,214

Aug 7, 2012 -- 1:42AM, Aka_me wrote:

by such reasoning... publication of Origin of Species would have put theology into an unrecoverable tailspin.

That is a very ignorant statement. Ignorant because Charles Darwin never claimed that evolution was godless, and in fact claimed that God had to have started life in the first place, and evolution is how differentiation happened. Charles Darwin was NOT an atheist, and he is NOT any kind of atheist "messiah." Also, the science presented in "On the Origin of Species" is much more primitive and undeveloped than the modern Theory of Evolution. To say that the current understanding of evolution is comparable to Charles Darwin's teachings is to grossly misunderstand both.

Aug 7, 2012 -- 1:42AM, Aka_me wrote:

until science can duplicate the big bang in laboratory, it says nothing about God's existence.

Science ALREADY says NOTHING about God's (or any god's) existence. All that "science" does is discover and quantify descriptions and explanations for things that previously were claimed to be only possible through God (or some other god). But since the question of the existence of God (or any other god) contains NO falsifiable claims or tests, science has no ability to even test the premise.

I know this has all been explained before; why do people keep bringing up this strawman "rivalry" between science and faith?

Do not assume that which you seek to discover.

steven_guy

Posts: 11,136

Aug 7, 2012 -- 2:45AM, Aka_me wrote:

Aug 6, 2012 -- 9:23PM, JCarlin wrote:
any spectacular science achievement featuring higher order thinking skills, will cause questioning by the believers.

what would be considered a more spectacular science achievement than publication of Origin of Species?

landing on the moon perhaps...

not exactly earth shattering in the arena of "questioning by the believers".

foreign bacteria as origins of life on earth?

causing jack in the way of questioning.

science will neither kill, nor "affect in any way" the number of people believing in God.

Science destroys religions. Come on, you know that.

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