Aug 5, 2012 -- 3:20PM, JimRigas wrote:

Aug 5, 2012 -- 2:43PM, Paladinsf wrote:

Aug 5, 2012 -- 2:31PM, JimRigas wrote:

If this physical life is only a brief preparation for the longer spiritual life that awaits us, there may not necessarily be any good reason for unnecessarily prolonging this woman's physical life on that lonely island.  A kind god may say, "Let her come to me!"    

BIG if, Charlie. Really big if. For which we have no evidence whatever.

 

I strongly disagree.  IF there is a god, my statement is more likely to be true than false, so it does not involve any big ifs.  IF there is no god, then the question being asked here is nonsense and we should do better to turn our great intellect to solving other great imaginary conundrums. 

Good point.   

Let's declare that we don't believe Santa Claus really exists.  And then spend day after day debating how many elves he employs, if they're paid fairly, etc.

And then lets get mad at him for not giving the same amount of presents to every kid.  

Aug 5, 2012 -- 7:47PM, Qwesam wrote:

Aug 5, 2012 -- 2:31PM, JimRigas wrote:

If this physical life is only a brief preparation for the longer spiritual life that awaits us, there may not necessarily be any good reason for unnecessarily prolonging this woman's physical life on that lonely island.  A kind god may say, "Let her come to me!"    

If that is the case, why don't all Christians kill themselves. 

hey, that is the fastest way to heaven, eh?

Perhaps because there is something that we must first learn or develop, which will benefit us in the future life.  Learning how to love is something that comes to mind.  Remember when we first entered the physical world the only person we loved was ourself.  Obviously we don't all learn to love others, or not enough, but I suppose that the more we learn how to love the easier it is in the next stage.  

Aug 5, 2012 -- 3:46PM, jonny42 wrote:

Aug 5, 2012 -- 3:20PM, JimRigas wrote:

Aug 5, 2012 -- 2:43PM, Paladinsf wrote:

Aug 5, 2012 -- 2:31PM, JimRigas wrote:

If this physical life is only a brief preparation for the longer spiritual life that awaits us, there may not necessarily be any good reason for unnecessarily prolonging this woman's physical life on that lonely island.  A kind god may say, "Let her come to me!"    

BIG if, Charlie. Really big if. For which we have no evidence whatever.

 

I strongly disagree.  IF there is a god, my statement is more likely to be true than false, so it does not involve any big ifs.  IF there is no god, then the question being asked here is nonsense and we should do better to turn our great intellect to solving other great imaginary conundrums. 

Good point.   

Let's declare that we don't believe Santa Claus really exists.  And then spend day after day debating how many elves he employs, if they're paid fairly, etc.

And then lets get mad at him for not giving the same amount of presents to every kid.  

That is the kind of sly self-serving deceitful argument one often sees from believers. It is designed to obscure the obvious defects of these mythologies. So because it raining out and my printed is out toner and I can neither go to the woods nor edit hard copy I will waste a few minutes and EXPLAIN the obvious to the willfully ignorant. 

Of course we are NOT talking about your god. As you point it doesn’t exist and never did. What we are talking about is the belief in this god and what that belief entails.

Now as you correctly point out even THAT would be a pointless endeavor EXCEPT believers are not content with simply believing this crap. They INSIST the rest of us believe it also. And are busy as we speak trying make that happen.

Entire organizations exist for the sole purpose of propagating this nonsense.  

Nay more.

They wish the tenets of these myths written into law. They want scientific decisions made in accordance with it precepts. They want EVERY child indoctrinated with this carp BEFORE it is too late. Before they learn critical reasoning skills and discover this stuff is – well crap. Myths, legends, fairy tales and boogey-man stuff designed to frighten and cow into submission.

So no, we are NOT debating Santa Claus’s elves and their working conditions, as much as you would like that to be the case.

We are debating PUBLIC POLICY and the process by which it is formulated.

Aug 5, 2012 -- 9:36PM, Paladinsf wrote:

 They want EVERY child indoctrinated with this carp BEFORE it is too late. Before they learn critical reasoning skills and discover this stuff is – well crap. Myths, legends, fairy tales and boogey-man stuff designed to frighten and cow into submission.

So no, we are NOT debating Santa Claus’s elves and their working conditions, as much as you would like that to be the case.

We are debating PUBLIC POLICY and the process by which it is formulated.

You're debating a lot more than public policy.  You debate all sorts of things regarding Christian beliefs, like God's character.

You must find it credible to be believed.  

You said:

Given that he never keeps his promises to the living when they ask for help, why should you believe that he keeps any promises at all?

After all, Jesus promised this and this was a lie: And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask anything in my name, that will I do.

So if she asks for it in Jesus' name he HAS to give her what she's asked for because that is what Jesus (according to the author of John) said.

So is that a lie?  Did Jesus lie? Is the Gospel of John a lie? 

[/quote]

Have you asked for something Kwinters and have not received it?  We are also told that when we ask we are not to be double minded and unstable but to believe and to not doubt...

I don't know what it is that you have asked for and have not received, but if anyone comes to the SON HE will in no wise cast out...so yes, to those who come to HIM and continue and persist,, HE will be found....but they should seek and continue to seek and never stop seeking...until they find, or are found by HIM.

HE told us that in this world you will have trouble, but take heart...for I have overcome for you...and who is it that has overcome?  Is it not he who has believed on the SON OF GOD?  Isn't this even our FAITH?

GOD is a refiner, a launderer, a purifier and a pruner, and our FAITH is tested and tried in the fire, (the storms WILL come), just as GOLD is refined in the fire, so that our FAITH, which is more precious than gold, will rest entirely IN HIM...(1Peter)

Don't forget the parable of the sower...and the house built on the ROCK.

"And those who overcame?  Were those who did not love their lives to the death, but held to the TESTIMONY OF JESUS..." (revelation)