Post Reply
Page 4 of 10  •  Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 10 Next
Switch to Forum Live View qualifications to be called a god
2 years ago  ::  Jul 25, 2012 - 3:04PM #31
gorm-sionnach
Posts: 1,663

Jul 25, 2012 -- 1:46PM, Aka_me wrote:


I was preparing to ask for an example of a god who does exert influence upon you, and how?


as humans, we may or may not have guides / spirits / guardian angels who look over us and exert influence. in such a case we would owe them gratitude, but I don't believe that makes them worthy of worship.


it's the difference between gratitude and worship that I'm interested in hearing the justification for.





So, from my perspective, the primary function of the gods is the maintenence of the order of the cosmos. My offerings and sacrifices to them, assist them in this endevour and allow me to maintain a proper relationship with them. So, before you jump to "why do the gods need your help to do, x, y, z", know that they could perform their functions without my assistence. Obviouisly they have been doing so since time began, as it were. However, as I am able to foster and maintain the correct relationship with them, through those offerings and sacrifices, I am better for it. Sort of like the difference between "living" and "flourishing".


There are corollary functions as well: providing blessings, providing an example worthy enough to follow as evidenced in the myths, giving me purpose in this life, etc.


In this respect, I can think of no better term than worship (again, that is to honour) to use.

Truth in our hearts, Strength in our arms, Fulfillment in our tongues.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jul 25, 2012 - 7:40PM #32
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,761

Very nice Gorm :)

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jul 26, 2012 - 12:53AM #33
Aka_me
Posts: 11,897

Jul 25, 2012 -- 3:04PM, gorm-sionnach wrote:

So, from my perspective, the primary function of the gods is the maintenence of the order of the cosmos. My offerings and sacrifices to them, assist them in this endevour and allow me to maintain a proper relationship with them. So, before you jump to "why do the gods need your help to do, x, y, z", know that they could perform their functions without my assistence. Obviouisly they have been doing so since time began, as it were. However, as I am able to foster and maintain the correct relationship with them, through those offerings and sacrifices, I am better for it. Sort of like the difference between "living" and "flourishing".


There are corollary functions as well: providing blessings, providing an example worthy enough to follow as evidenced in the myths, giving me purpose in this life, etc.


In this respect, I can think of no better term than worship (again, that is to honour) to use.



that is very much the same answer monotheists provide when asked "why worship the Creator?", so yes I do understand.


and a more precise answer to the original question can be seen in your answer:


a being who participates in the maintanence of order of the cosmos.


is there a reason why any particular set of gods only pick one culture (greek, norse, etc) to relate to?

internet troll... anyone who won't stop posting about bad spelling.
the government KILLS and EXPERIMENTS and TORTURES people, without ever apologizing, being held accountable or punished. and you expect me to believe they've automagically grown a conscience to not continue? like bloody hades they have.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jul 26, 2012 - 6:52AM #34
gorm-sionnach
Posts: 1,663

Jul 26, 2012 -- 12:53AM, Aka_me wrote:


and a more precise answer to the original question can be seen in your answer:


a being who participates in the maintanence of order of the cosmos.


is there a reason why any particular set of gods only pick one culture (greek, norse, etc) to relate to?





Well now, there are some provisos in this. Remember those tree gods, or river goddesses, whose realm of influence happens to be the single river or tree? They too maintain the order of the cosmos, simply by doing what they do. As insignificant as it may seem, their being is as relevant and praise worthy as those who keep "the sky from falling down".


In regards to how a group of deities relate or pick a culture, depends on geography mostly. Gods in a polytheistic context are not omnipresent, and so tend to relate to a more specifc geography or culture. Often times, peoples also "take their gods with them" during migrations, diasporas, etc.

Truth in our hearts, Strength in our arms, Fulfillment in our tongues.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jul 26, 2012 - 4:14PM #35
Aka_me
Posts: 11,897

Jul 26, 2012 -- 6:52AM, gorm-sionnach wrote:

Well now, there are some provisos in this. Remember those tree gods, or river goddesses, whose realm of influence happens to be the single river or tree? They too maintain the order of the cosmos, simply by doing what they do. As insignificant as it may seem, their being is as relevant and praise worthy as those who keep "the sky from falling down".


In regards to how a group of deities relate or pick a culture, depends on geography mostly. Gods in a polytheistic context are not omnipresent, and so tend to relate to a more specifc geography or culture. Often times, peoples also "take their gods with them" during migrations, diasporas, etc.



how does a god's realm of influence coexist with the laws of physics?


is a river god assisting gravity, to enable water to move "down hill"?


or is the influence to break the law of gravity and enable the river to flow up hill?


are there gods exerting influence over dark matter and dark energy (94% of the universe)


have we ever heard from these gods before, or know their names?


are there gods of elements, photons, quarks, higgs bosons?


I take it electrons would be Thor?


anyone covering neutrons or protons?

internet troll... anyone who won't stop posting about bad spelling.
the government KILLS and EXPERIMENTS and TORTURES people, without ever apologizing, being held accountable or punished. and you expect me to believe they've automagically grown a conscience to not continue? like bloody hades they have.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jul 26, 2012 - 6:01PM #36
gorm-sionnach
Posts: 1,663

Jul 26, 2012 -- 4:14PM, Aka_me wrote:


how does a god's realm of influence coexist with the laws of physics?


is a river god assisting gravity, to enable water to move "down hill"?


or is the influence to break the law of gravity and enable the river to flow up hill?


are there gods exerting influence over dark matter and dark energy (94% of the universe)


have we ever heard from these gods before, or know their names?


are there gods of elements, photons, quarks, higgs bosons?


I take it electrons would be Thor?


anyone covering neutrons or protons?




This is a good example of the necessary seperation of mythic thinking from logical thinking, and the problem with literalism. Christian theologians have spent centuries trying to reconcile their need to have a literal translation of a book of myths, histories, laws and rituals into something which is supposed to be 100% authoritative with no logical inconsistencies or errors, and only succede in this through the power of delusion and special pleading.


I understand the gods on a mythic level, I understand science on a logical level. In such a way I know that lightning is both a massive discharge of electrostatic buildup in the atmosphere, and Lugh's spear.

Truth in our hearts, Strength in our arms, Fulfillment in our tongues.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jul 26, 2012 - 6:59PM #37
Aka_me
Posts: 11,897

Jul 26, 2012 -- 6:01PM, gorm-sionnach wrote:

This is a good example of the necessary seperation of mythic thinking from logical thinking, and the problem with literalism. Christian theologians have spent centuries trying to reconcile their need to have a literal translation of a book of myths, histories, laws and rituals into something which is supposed to be 100% authoritative with no logical inconsistencies or errors, and only succede in this through the power of delusion and special pleading.


I understand the gods on a mythic level, I understand science on a logical level. In such a way I know that lightning is both a massive discharge of electrostatic buildup in the atmosphere, and Lugh's spear.



mythical thinking is like that of Tom Thumb and Snow White. to say Snow White exerts influence over the seven dwarfs would be difficult to talk about because there is nothing to support or refute either side.


claiming influence over the natural world...


can or should be supportable by something, anything, other than the laws of physics obeying their natural order.


does Snow White exert influence over the natural world?

internet troll... anyone who won't stop posting about bad spelling.
the government KILLS and EXPERIMENTS and TORTURES people, without ever apologizing, being held accountable or punished. and you expect me to believe they've automagically grown a conscience to not continue? like bloody hades they have.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jul 26, 2012 - 8:17PM #38
gorm-sionnach
Posts: 1,663

Jul 26, 2012 -- 6:59PM, Aka_me wrote:


 and Snow White. to say Snow White exerts influence over the seven dwarfs would be difficult to talk about because there is nothing to support or refute either side.


claiming influence over the natural world...


can or should be supportable by something, anything, other than the laws of physics obeying their natural order.


does Snow White exert influence over the natural world?





You are not even able to understand the difference between a fairy tale and myth, so what would be the point of even continuing a discussion?


Again, if you fail to actually understand the point of myth, and how it is not history, is not science, but rather provides meaning to ones experiences, then you're not going to be able to understand. Myth doesn't really offer models to explain how something works, but why it works.

Truth in our hearts, Strength in our arms, Fulfillment in our tongues.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jul 27, 2012 - 2:52PM #39
Aka_me
Posts: 11,897

Jul 26, 2012 -- 8:17PM, gorm-sionnach wrote:


Jul 26, 2012 -- 6:59PM, Aka_me wrote:


 and Snow White. to say Snow White exerts influence over the seven dwarfs would be difficult to talk about because there is nothing to support or refute either side.


claiming influence over the natural world...


can or should be supportable by something, anything, other than the laws of physics obeying their natural order.


does Snow White exert influence over the natural world?





You are not even able to understand the difference between a fairy tale and myth, so what would be the point of even continuing a discussion?


Again, if you fail to actually understand the point of myth, and how it is not history, is not science, but rather provides meaning to ones experiences, then you're not going to be able to understand. Myth doesn't really offer models to explain how something works, but why it works.




I'll admit that I don't understand the world view of Paganists. anyone can read the stories of individual gods, but there is more to it than that when it comes to the Paganists' point of view. and my purpose of coming here.


my opinion is myths are really old fairy tales, where the characters allegorically represent a concept.


Snow White might be seen to exert influence upon humanity only if we seek to learn what the lesson from the story is.


if influence is worthy of worship, then she has just as much justification for being worshipped.

internet troll... anyone who won't stop posting about bad spelling.
the government KILLS and EXPERIMENTS and TORTURES people, without ever apologizing, being held accountable or punished. and you expect me to believe they've automagically grown a conscience to not continue? like bloody hades they have.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jul 27, 2012 - 7:56PM #40
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,761

Jul 26, 2012 -- 8:17PM, gorm-sionnach wrote:



You are not even able to understand the difference between a fairy tale and myth, so what would be the point of even continuing a discussion?


Again, if you fail to actually understand the point of myth, and how it is not history, is not science, but rather provides meaning to ones experiences, then you're not going to be able to understand. Myth doesn't really offer models to explain how something works, but why it works.




Gorm you have been wonderful in your explanations.


But it is nearly impossible to make an abrahamic monotheist understand the polytheist point of view. Especially when all they really want to do is prove the gods of polytheists are inferior to their own monotheistic god.



Which is what IMO we are dealing with here.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 4 of 10  •  Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 10 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook