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Switch to Forum Live View What is (are) Islam's Position(s) on Immigration (legal & illegal)
12 months ago  ::  Jul 24, 2012 - 10:27AM #41
browbeaten
Posts: 2,635

Jul 24, 2012 -- 4:34AM, BDboy wrote:


Jul 18, 2012 -- 12:11PM, browbeaten wrote:


The point that both you and Ibn failed to acknowledge is that the reason for expelling the Jews was RELIGIOUS, not political.  Nearly all of the Jews expelled had absolutely nothing to do with Israel.  The only fact is that they were Jews.  







 


>>>>>>> History does NOT support your understanding. Had it been a "Religious" reason, they would have been deported 1300 years ago. History tells us Muslims got along fine with Jewish people better than any other leading religious communities.


As I said we do discuss "Political issues" in political forums frequently. So it is not like we are not talking about it. Since there is no religious reason behind alledged deportation, I don't think we need to bring politics in religious forum.




You still haven't answered as to why Jews were expelled from Arab countries when Israel was formed.  You are implying that it is political, which I can't see how that is possible when the Jews who were expelled had nothing to do with Israel.  They were rounded up because they were Jews.  I am implying that it is based on the Qur'an's view of Jews that this occured. 

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12 months ago  ::  Jul 24, 2012 - 4:13PM #42
Ibn
Posts: 3,340

Jul 24, 2012 -- 10:27AM, browbeaten wrote:


Jul 24, 2012 -- 4:34AM, BDboy wrote:


Jul 18, 2012 -- 12:11PM, browbeaten wrote:


The point that both you and Ibn failed to acknowledge is that the reason for expelling the Jews was RELIGIOUS, not political.  Nearly all of the Jews expelled had absolutely nothing to do with Israel.  The only fact is that they were Jews.  




>>>>>>> History does NOT support your understanding. Had it been a "Religious" reason, they would have been deported 1300 years ago. History tells us Muslims got along fine with Jewish people better than any other leading religious communities.


As I said we do discuss "Political issues" in political forums frequently. So it is not like we are not talking about it. Since there is no religious reason behind alledged deportation, I don't think we need to bring politics in religious forum.




You still haven't answered as to why Jews were expelled from Arab countries when Israel was formed.


 BDboy,


The only time you would answer the question is when you say that it was because they had just become Jews.


Jul 24, 2012 -- 10:27AM, browbeaten wrote:

You are implying that it is political, which I can't see how that is possible when the Jews who were expelled had nothing to do with Israel. They were rounded up because they were Jews.  I am implying that it is based on the Qur'an's view of Jews that this occured. 


Of course you are correct; the Qur'an had just been revealed in 1948.

I know one thing: There are a billion Islamic people in the world today, and there will be about 2 billion by the time we're dead. They're not going to give up their religion.
(Chris Matthews)
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12 months ago  ::  Jul 24, 2012 - 5:09PM #43
browbeaten
Posts: 2,635

Jul 24, 2012 -- 4:13PM, Ibn wrote:


Jul 24, 2012 -- 10:27AM, browbeaten wrote:


Jul 24, 2012 -- 4:34AM, BDboy wrote:


Jul 18, 2012 -- 12:11PM, browbeaten wrote:


The point that both you and Ibn failed to acknowledge is that the reason for expelling the Jews was RELIGIOUS, not political.  Nearly all of the Jews expelled had absolutely nothing to do with Israel.  The only fact is that they were Jews.  




>>>>>>> History does NOT support your understanding. Had it been a "Religious" reason, they would have been deported 1300 years ago. History tells us Muslims got along fine with Jewish people better than any other leading religious communities.


As I said we do discuss "Political issues" in political forums frequently. So it is not like we are not talking about it. Since there is no religious reason behind alledged deportation, I don't think we need to bring politics in religious forum.




You still haven't answered as to why Jews were expelled from Arab countries when Israel was formed.


 BDboy,


The only time you would answer the question is when you say that it was because they had just become Jews.


Jul 24, 2012 -- 10:27AM, browbeaten wrote:

You are implying that it is political, which I can't see how that is possible when the Jews who were expelled had nothing to do with Israel. They were rounded up because they were Jews.  I am implying that it is based on the Qur'an's view of Jews that this occured. 


Of course you are correct; the Qur'an had just been revealed in 1948.




Ibn, then please answer why.  By the way, Muslims had mistreated Jews throughout history.  Why were there "good" times and "bad" times on how Jews were treated?  Believing the dhimmi status of Jews and having the power and means to subjugate them is very different.  When it became "necessary" and possible, Muslims acted on their beliefs.  As they did when expelling all the Jews from the Arab nations from 1948-1955.


If you don't like or agree with what I have said, then give me a different answer or reason for the expulsion.


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12 months ago  ::  Jul 24, 2012 - 7:10PM #44
Ibn
Posts: 3,340

Jul 24, 2012 -- 4:13PM, Ibn wrote:


Jul 24, 2012 -- 10:27AM, browbeaten wrote:


Jul 24, 2012 -- 4:34AM, BDboy wrote:


Jul 18, 2012 -- 12:11PM, browbeaten wrote:


The point that both you and Ibn failed to acknowledge is that the reason for expelling the Jews was RELIGIOUS, not political.  Nearly all of the Jews expelled had absolutely nothing to do with Israel.  The only fact is that they were Jews.  




>>>>>>> History does NOT support your understanding. Had it been a "Religious" reason, they would have been deported 1300 years ago. History tells us Muslims got along fine with Jewish people better than any other leading religious communities.


As I said we do discuss "Political issues" in political forums frequently. So it is not like we are not talking about it. Since there is no religious reason behind alledged deportation, I don't think we need to bring politics in religious forum.




You still haven't answered as to why Jews were expelled from Arab countries when Israel was formed.


 BDboy,


The only time you would answer the question is when you say that it was because they had just become Jews.


Jul 24, 2012 -- 10:27AM, browbeaten wrote:

You are implying that it is political, which I can't see how that is possible when the Jews who were expelled had nothing to do with Israel. They were rounded up because they were Jews.  I am implying that it is based on the Qur'an's view of Jews that this occured. 


Of course you are correct; the Qur'an had just been revealed in 1948.




Jul 24, 2012 -- 5:09PM, browbeaten wrote:


Ibn, then please answer why. 


You blamed Islam and the Qur'an and people refuted it. 


Jul 24, 2012 -- 5:09PM, browbeaten wrote:

By the way, Muslims had mistreated Jews throughout history. 


It seems as if it was not only Muslims but almost everyone, Egyptians, Babylonians, Romans, Arabs, Christians and the others. Why it Jews always the victims?


Jul 24, 2012 -- 5:09PM, browbeaten wrote:

Why were there "good" times and "bad" times on how Jews were treated? 


Perhaps it was the way Jews had behaved at different times.


Jul 24, 2012 -- 5:09PM, browbeaten wrote:

Believing the dhimmi status of Jews and having the power and means to subjugate them is very different. 


Dhimmi status means protected status rather than expelled status.


Jul 24, 2012 -- 5:09PM, browbeaten wrote:

When it became "necessary" and possible, Muslims acted on their beliefs.  As they did when expelling all the Jews from the Arab nations from 1948-1955.


Belief did not start between 1948 and 1955.


Jul 24, 2012 -- 5:09PM, browbeaten wrote:

If you don't like or agree with what I have said, then give me a different answer or reason for the expulsion.


Take your pick and I may as well give you that reason as you won't accept any other reason.

I know one thing: There are a billion Islamic people in the world today, and there will be about 2 billion by the time we're dead. They're not going to give up their religion.
(Chris Matthews)
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12 months ago  ::  Jul 25, 2012 - 10:02AM #45
browbeaten
Posts: 2,635

That's OK Ibn.  I really didn't expect an answer.  Anyway, your REAL answer would have opened up a can of worms.  I never blamed it on the Qur'an, but on those Muslims would believed they were acting on behalf of the Qur'an.  I think many Muslim countries have an innate problem with infidels and cannot separate the part from the whole.

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12 months ago  ::  Jul 25, 2012 - 7:13PM #46
Ibn
Posts: 3,340

Jul 25, 2012 -- 10:02AM, browbeaten wrote:


That's OK Ibn.  I really didn't expect an answer.  Anyway, your REAL answer would have opened up a can of worms.  I never blamed it on the Qur'an, but on those Muslims would believed they were acting on behalf of the Qur'an.  I think many Muslim countries have an innate problem with infidels and cannot separate the part from the whole.



Muslims can't act on behalf of the Qur'an but according to the commandments in the Qur'an.There is no command in the Qur'an that Muslims should expell Jews on simple fact that they are Jews. Expelling people out of their homes unjustly is regarded in Islam (the Qur'an) as worst than slaughtering them.

I know one thing: There are a billion Islamic people in the world today, and there will be about 2 billion by the time we're dead. They're not going to give up their religion.
(Chris Matthews)
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12 months ago  ::  Jul 26, 2012 - 9:18AM #47
browbeaten
Posts: 2,635

Jul 25, 2012 -- 7:13PM, Ibn wrote:


Jul 25, 2012 -- 10:02AM, browbeaten wrote:


That's OK Ibn.  I really didn't expect an answer.  Anyway, your REAL answer would have opened up a can of worms.  I never blamed it on the Qur'an, but on those Muslims would believed they were acting on behalf of the Qur'an.  I think many Muslim countries have an innate problem with infidels and cannot separate the part from the whole.



Muslims can't act on behalf of the Qur'an but according to the commandments in the Qur'an.There is no command in the Qur'an that Muslims should expell Jews on simple fact that they are Jews. Expelling people out of their homes unjustly is regarded in Islam (the Qur'an) as worst than slaughtering them.




Wordplay only weakens you argument.

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