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Switch to Forum Live View Buddhist canon stating "there is no God"
2 years ago  ::  Jul 16, 2012 - 5:29PM #41
chevy956
Posts: 1,960

Jul 16, 2012 -- 3:58PM, dio wrote:

Chevy/


I thought that's what I just said? Maybe I'm missing your point, Are you insisting that if I believe the teachings of Buddha are true and good; I have to become atheist? Buddha never insisted on atheism as far as I know, can you give me a reference where he did?


What I'm saying is that belief in the supernatural, including gods, devas, kitchen fairies, etc. is not required to be a practicing Buddhist, despite the claims of certain ignorant persons who can't bear the idea of an atheist practicing Buddhism.


 

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 16, 2012 - 5:50PM #42
dio
Posts: 4,959

OK so where do you stand on Tibitan Buddhism and Bodisatvas? You are setting yourself up for a misunderstanding. I don't care if you are atheist. But are you saying those Buddhist who believe in devas and demons are fools?

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 16, 2012 - 6:32PM #43
chevy956
Posts: 1,960

Jul 16, 2012 -- 5:50PM, dio wrote:

OK so where do you stand on Tibitan Buddhism and Bodisatvas? You are setting yourself up for a misunderstanding. I don't care if you are atheist. But are you saying those Buddhist who believe in devas and demons are fools?


Don't try to put words in my mouth, son...


Tibetan Buddhists understand devas, wrathful deities, Boddisatvas, etc. to be projections of one's own mind and helpful imagary for meditation. I fully agree with that assessment.

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 16, 2012 - 7:34PM #44
dio
Posts: 4,959

Jul 16, 2012 -- 6:32PM, chevy956 wrote:

Jul 16, 2012 -- 5:50PM, dio wrote:


OK so where do you stand on Tibitan Buddhism and Bodisatvas? You are setting yourself up for a misunderstanding. I don't care if you are atheist. But are you saying those Buddhist who believe in devas and demons are fools?




Don't try to put words in my mouth, son...


Tibetan Buddhists understand devas, wrathful deities, Boddisatvas, etc. to be projections of one's own mind and helpful imagary for meditation. I fully agree with that assessment.




OK so they are all just projections. Why bother with all that nonsense?

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 17, 2012 - 8:56AM #45
Kwinters
Posts: 21,951

Jul 16, 2012 -- 7:34PM, dio wrote:


Jul 16, 2012 -- 6:32PM, chevy956 wrote:

Jul 16, 2012 -- 5:50PM, dio wrote:


OK so where do you stand on Tibitan Buddhism and Bodisatvas? You are setting yourself up for a misunderstanding. I don't care if you are atheist. But are you saying those Buddhist who believe in devas and demons are fools?




Don't try to put words in my mouth, son...


Tibetan Buddhists understand devas, wrathful deities, Boddisatvas, etc. to be projections of one's own mind and helpful imagary for meditation. I fully agree with that assessment.




OK so they are all just projections. Why bother with all that nonsense?





Buddhism tends to integrate with the culture it enters.  If you want to understand why Tibetan Buddhism has all these devas and deities, then you'll have to look into the Tibeten Bon religion.


www.travelchinaguide.com/cityguides/tibe...

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 17, 2012 - 7:28PM #46
dio
Posts: 4,959

I don't have a problem with devas and demons. And I think I understand what Chevy is saying; devas are like strong altruistic emotions and demons are like strong distructive emotions. Is that close to what you are saying Chevy? I understand both well up from, our can I say, our Jungian subconscious brain?  


And once again thanks Kwinters for your scholarship.

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 18, 2012 - 11:51AM #47
gangajal
Posts: 835

I am neither a Buddhist nor an athiest. Nevertheless, I am interested in Buddhism because I consider it as part of my heritage. I have always found some of Buddhist concepts conceptually unstable like the concept of Karma. It has seemed to me that there needs a conscious entity to orchestrate the karmic system. This is because the Karmic arrow by itself is insentient.

The purpose of this post is, however, different. It seems to me that the majority of the people posting here are not only nontheists but actually athiests. They seem to believe that there is no supernatural element in Buddhism. I am finding this very puzzling.


Let me sketch out the reason for this. It is known from modern neuroscience that our mind has neural correlates. Thus when our physical brain dies our mind also ceases to operate. There is, however, in a seed form a non-physical mind that can operate without the brain. This non-physical mind is the key to immortality. The minimum goal of meditation and other spiritual practices is to activate this non-physical mind. All the major branches of dharma like Buddhism, Vedanta, Jain etc accept this claim.


I quote here an excerpt from an article "On the luminosity of being" written by
the Dalai Lama:


"Now I'd like to say more about the fundamental nature of the mind. There is no reason to believe that the innate mind, the very essential luminous nature of awareness, has neural correlates, because it is not physical, not contingent upon the brain. So while I agree with neuroscience that gross mental events correlate with brain activity, I also feel that on
a more subtle level of consciousness, brain and mind are two separate entities."


No neuroscientist has ever found any evidence for such a mind that can operate without the brain and thus such a mind is clearly supernatural. Given this fact I am puzzled by the claim made here that Buddhism is completely free of supernatural elements.

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 18, 2012 - 3:44PM #48
Bob0
Posts: 485
I am neither a Buddhist nor an athiest. Nevertheless, I am interested in Buddhism because I consider it as part of my heritage. I have always found some of Buddhist concepts conceptually unstable like the concept of Karma. It has seemed to me that there needs a conscious entity to orchestrate the karmic system. This is because the Karmic arrow by itself is insentient.


That's because you believe karma is more than it is.
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 18, 2012 - 4:47PM #49
chevy956
Posts: 1,960

Jul 18, 2012 -- 3:44PM, Bob0 wrote:

I am neither a Buddhist nor an athiest. Nevertheless, I am interested in Buddhism because I consider it as part of my heritage. I have always found some of Buddhist concepts conceptually unstable like the concept of Karma. It has seemed to me that there needs a conscious entity to orchestrate the karmic system. This is because the Karmic arrow by itself is insentient.


That's because you believe karma is more than it is.


Very simpy stated, karma is the consequences of one's actions. Nothing further need be added to concept.

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 18, 2012 - 5:09PM #50
Aka_me
Posts: 12,188

Jul 18, 2012 -- 4:47PM, chevy956 wrote:


Jul 18, 2012 -- 3:44PM, Bob0 wrote:

That's because you believe karma is more than it is.



Very simpy stated, karma is the consequences of one's actions. Nothing further need be added to concept.



releasing a hundred pound weight directly above my foot is certain to obey physical laws of gravity with immediate and visible consequences.


thinking that moral actions (could we use the taking of human life as an example?)


will be "remembered" somewhere for some mythical "randomly decided amount" of consequence delivered at some unknown future time...


begs the questions of:


1. where is this karma memory maintained?


2. how is the severity of consequence decided? if not by some mythical karma judge.


3. how is the consequence to be carried out? if not by some mythical karma police.

not being able to debate is one thing, employing censorship to avoid debate is beyond words.
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