People don't commit sins

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12 months ago :: Jul 02, 2012 - 11:47AM #31
Kwinters Posts: 17,683	Jun 30, 2012 -- 12:20AM, Hoppy393 wrote: Jun 29, 2012 -- 10:47AM, Kwinters wrote: Romans 7:14-20 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, *it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it*. Just read a little further. ²⁴What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? ²⁵Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. How does God deliver people, since Christians still sin? If Jesus doesn't solve the problem of sin commit sins against your will, what good is he? Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert “Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law. If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?” Dale Spender
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12 months ago :: Jul 02, 2012 - 11:49AM #32
tfvespasianus Posts: 1,739	Jul 2, 2012 -- 11:41AM, Kwinters wrote: Jun 29, 2012 -- 12:01PM, tfvespasianus wrote: I did recently hear an interpretation of 1 Cor 5:5 that connected this verse to the idea that there was an early belief that people were, to some extent, numinous beings that had been spiritually cleansed by the Resurrection. Thus, there could be a 'remnant' of sorts wholly connected with the physical body distinct from the spiritual self. I think the context of the interpretation is based on the belief in the imminent eschatological event. Of course, 'the delay of the parousia' is something that has complex apologetics associated with it and if it becomes a discussion about that then it's just going to come down to dueling proof-texts, harmonization, and associated fun. Sounds a bit like Scientology. Perhaps this is the case, but of course it's more precise to say that Scientology sounds a bit like Christianity in this case. And, a great many things often sound like other things in this realm (i.e. religious themes and motifs) so Ecclesiastes still rings true and in some sense that's even kind of 'meta' (i.e. self-referential) Ubi solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant - Tacitus
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12 months ago :: Jul 02, 2012 - 11:50AM #33
Kwinters Posts: 17,683	Jun 30, 2012 -- 9:17AM, 57 wrote: Jun 29, 2012 -- 11:31AM, Kwinters wrote: But if someone has Tourette's and they swear because the disorder impels them we don't hold them morally accountable for what was done beyond their control. If Paul is right and we actually want to do good but the sin takes over and does ill, then it is sin that is morally accoutable and not us. Apples and oranges. Paul is no longer accountable because ALL of hs sins, past, present and future have already been imputed to Jesus Christ. Paul wants to do good for his Lord and Savior Jesus Christ...but he also realizes sin is still effecting his life. Non-christians like you expect every christian to act perfect. Why? Originally Pauls sin was accountable to him....but Jesus took his sin. I don't see any quotes from Paul in your post, and since that is what the topic is your opinions are irrelevant. Paul clearly describes sin as a power that operates independent of human will. That eliminates moral responsibility for what sin does on its own. Further, if accepting Jesus is supposed to be the solution then it can't be a very effective one given the high failure rate of Christians on their own metrics of sinlessness. Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert “Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law. If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?” Dale Spender
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12 months ago :: Jul 02, 2012 - 3:31PM #34
Rgurley4 Posts: 3,818	Methinks you don't understand the SIN NATURE (innate / spiritual tendancy to turn from GOD) in: A> UNBELIEVERS...in BONDAGE...the flesh and the world overcome the desire to do good...sins are UNforgiven...judged! B>BELIEVERS...redeemed from BONDAGE, given spiritual power to be guided, and when sins are committed, sins are forgiven upon confession (agreement), + fellowship with God is restored. 1 John 1...BELIEVERS: agree with God and be forgiven 8 If we (BELIEVERS) say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess (agree with God about) our sins, He is faithful and righteous to FORGIVE us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we (BELIEVERS) say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His WORD is not in us. UNBELIEVERS: 2 Corinthians 6:14 Do not be bound together (yoked / attached ) with UNBELIEVERS; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? 16 Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we (BELIEVERS) are the temple of the living God Romans 5- 12 Therefore, just as through one man (ADAM) sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, 18 So then as through one transgression (in Eden) there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness (sacrifice of Jesus) there resulted justification of life to all men. 19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous because all sinned— Romans 1:18-20 (NIV) ...God’s Wrath Against Sinful UNBELIEVERS 18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, (UNBELIEVERS) because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature— have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that (UNBELIEVING) people are without excuse. John 3:18...Jesus: unbelievers He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 5:24...Jesus: believers “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, (of unbelievers) but has passed out of death (Body / Soul) into life.(eternal and spiritual) Romans 6:10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Hebrews 7:27 who does not need daily, like THOSE high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up HIMSELF.
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12 months ago :: Jul 02, 2012 - 3:33PM #35
lope Posts: 7,068	Jul 2, 2012 -- 11:47AM, Kwinters wrote: Jun 30, 2012 -- 12:20AM, Hoppy393 wrote: Jun 29, 2012 -- 10:47AM, Kwinters wrote: Romans 7:14-20 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, *it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it*. Just read a little further. ²⁴What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? ²⁵Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. How does God deliver people, since Christians still sin? If Jesus doesn't solve the problem of sin commit sins against your will, what good is he? Grace and forgivenss from a loving and merciful Creator is how God delivers people who do not achieve perfection in this life. Jesus taught and exampled that we have a loving Creator and the possibility of a destiny of life.
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12 months ago :: Jul 02, 2012 - 3:37PM #36
davelaw40 Posts: 19,137	Jul 2, 2012 -- 11:47AM, Kwinters wrote: Jun 30, 2012 -- 12:20AM, Hoppy393 wrote: Jun 29, 2012 -- 10:47AM, Kwinters wrote: Romans 7:14-20 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, *it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it*. Just read a little further. ²⁴What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? ²⁵Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. How does God deliver people, since Christians still sin? If Jesus doesn't solve the problem of sin commit sins against your will, what good is he? by gradual transformation Ro 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Ro 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: Non Quis, Sed Quid
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12 months ago :: Jul 02, 2012 - 3:41PM #37
mytmouse57 Posts: 9,316	Jun 29, 2012 -- 10:47AM, Kwinters wrote: Romans 7:14-20 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, *it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it*. To me, this speaks to how things might go when one lets animal or selfish passions ("the sin in me") over-ride one's higher, or essential and rational being.
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12 months ago :: Jul 02, 2012 - 9:58PM #38
MMarcoe Posts: 11,436	Jun 29, 2012 -- 10:47AM, Kwinters wrote: Romans 7:14-20 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, *it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it*. This is the Buddhist view. Paul was a Buddhist, of course. He knew about the nature of the self as opposed to the nature of the divine, and how each of them worked in him. There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth. God is just a personification of reality, of pure objectivity.
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12 months ago :: Jul 03, 2012 - 7:37AM #39
Dostojevsky Posts: 4,731	' We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, *it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me*. ' Instead of the word 'sin' take 'disease'. As disease works on the body so the sin works on the spirit.
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12 months ago :: Jul 03, 2012 - 8:33AM #40
Kwinters Posts: 17,683	Jul 2, 2012 -- 3:33PM, lope wrote: Grace and forgivenss from a loving and merciful Creator is how God delivers people who do not achieve perfection in this life. Jesus taught and exampled that we have a loving Creator and the possibility of a destiny of life. How is that different from saying 'Jesus will cure your cancer after you're dead'? Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert “Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law. If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?” Dale Spender
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