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Switch to Forum Live View Forced to Convert to Islam!
6 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2012 - 5:58PM #91
chevy956
Posts: 2,021

Jun 27, 2012 -- 9:24AM, BDboy wrote:


 >>>>>>>Forced conversion is going on right now in India and Pakistanwww.dnaindia.com/world/report_pak-minist...


 


>>>>>>>> I think I made it VERY clear to everyone that, I can speak of what Islam says about forced conversion. It is AGAINIST it.


Also do remember, Pakistan is a Muslim majority country. Had forced conversion was accepted in Islam, there was no need to ban it!!


There are laws against rape in the USA but that does NOT mean there is no rape in the USA!!


I do not think any "Common Americans" approves of raping women but we have laws to punish rapists. Because as a country USA does NOT approve it.


Same goes with Islam. The holy Qur'an clearly stated that, religion cannot be forced (Source: Al-Qur'an 2:256).


So it is not even a matter of debate. Just wanted to share the information to those who do not know about it.


 


 




The fact is that it is being done by Muslims and has been done by Muslims for centuries. They are your poster children. They are part of the face of Islam. Stop denying it.


Your holy Quran also states that Muslims should slay non-believers.


Humanity has grown far past your Quran. Time for you to play catch up with the rest of the world, or face eventual irrelevence or possible extermination if some of your co-religionists ever light off a nuke, dirty bomb or WMD in a Western country.

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2012 - 6:10PM #92
chevy956
Posts: 2,021

Jun 25, 2012 -- 2:13PM, Miraj wrote:


When people come here wanting to prove that Islam is bad and/or all Muslims are bad because of an unIslamic act done by some, thinking that they have proof from Wikipedia or some other questionable source, they are often frustrated because they are unable to transfer their own penetrating ignorance onto the Muslims who post here.  It's not the purpose of this board to apologize for perceived bad acts, to promote confusion about Islam, nor to equate human shortcomings with Islam, so, please lower your expectations and insistance that we will do so.


I have no doubt that the same denial that bothers some here is found on the atheist boards or the Jewish boards when someone accuses all atheists or Jews of responsibility for faithless bad acts by other Jews or atheists.  We see it quite often from our Jewish posters when they are accused of responsibility for what has been done in their name.  


We witnessed the same today when it was denied that most serial killers are atheists.  Unfortunately, atheists have no written standards for behavior, so it's harder to know what their collective beliefs, or lack of them, are. 


Salaam




One of your posters made a crack about my former home state and bestiality. I don't appreciate it. Funny that you people cry when I respond in kind. 


"We witnessed the same today when it was denied that most serial killers are atheists.  Unfortunately, atheists have no written standards for behavior, so it's harder to know what their collective beliefs, or lack of them, are. "


Complete and utter BS. Atheism is about lack of belief in gods, no more. I have the same standards of behavior as any other civilized human and a far higher one than the tripe preached in your 'holy" book, or that of some of your compatriots who enjoy harming others in the name of Islam. BY the way, you may cite me an exact source for the serial killer/atheism link or retract your statement and apologize.

Moderated by Miraj on Jun 28, 2012 - 08:54AM
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6 years ago  ::  Jun 27, 2012 - 6:58PM #93
chevy956
Posts: 2,021

Jun 27, 2012 -- 9:14AM, BDboy wrote:

 


>>>>>Again, the fact that you disagree with the website doesn't mean the info is invalid or incorrect.


 


>>>>>> Theoratically you are right. As far as this web site is concern, you are wrong. If you know any Indians in your area, just ask who were ruling India when Muslims arrived and you will see.


Just look up any "Credible" source of information. I have spent good amount of time in my university days, so as far as this topic is concern I am sure of this information.


Bhuddhist were largely gone by the time Muslims arriaved in India.


Also DO note that, Muslim rulers were (Lets say 95% of them) not much interested to preach Islam in India. The strongest "Mughal emperor" Akbar the great was so anti-Muslim that he intriduced a new religion (Mixing up a little bit of everything which died right after he passed away).


Islam in India came with Sufi. saints and traders (Much like in Indonesia and Malaysia) and people embraced it without much violence.


Take another example when "Akbar" attacked the eastern part of India he sent his Hindu general and a Muslim land lord defended eastern India against him (That part of India is now known as Bangladesh). So if you look at Indian history strictly religious point of view, you will be getting the wrong idea.


When the British went to India and colonized it both Hindus and Muslims gave their last shot against the Brits under a Muslim Emperor (Bahadur Shah zafar). Remember it was around 100 years of colonization and Muslims did not have any special power over population.


Had Muslim rulers had the habit of forcing people about religion and other affairs, I do not think people from all faiths (Hindu, Muslims and other faith) wanted to fight unitedly under the last Mughal ruler who lost power many years before this happened.


King Ashoka is considered the bhuddhist king who ruled greater India. Hindus largely controled most parts when Muslims arrived in India.


But Islam was spreading via common people not by kings.


As an expert said, " By the time of the Muslim conquests in India, there were only glimpses of Buddhism nor any evidence of a provincial government in control of the Buddhists"


[ Source: André Wink, "Al-Hind, the Making of the Indo-Islamic World", 2004, BRILL, ISBN 90041023 ]


If you actually know your history, you'd know that I was talking about the actual conquests several centuries before Akbar. I am aware that Buddhism was largely gone from India by the time of the conquests. However, the main university and monastic center at Nalanda was destroyed by Muslims. Muslims considered Buddhists and Hindus equally as kafir.

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2012 - 6:10AM #94
Ibn
Posts: 6,037

Jun 27, 2012 -- 9:24AM, BDboy wrote:


 >>>>>>>Forced conversion is going on right now in India and Pakistanwww.dnaindia.com/world/report_pak-minist...


>>>>>>>> I think I made it VERY clear to everyone that, I can speak of what Islam says about forced conversion. It is AGAINIST it.


Also do remember, Pakistan is a Muslim majority country. Had forced conversion was accepted in Islam, there was no need to ban it!!


There are laws against rape in the USA but that does NOT mean there is no rape in the USA!!


I do not think any "Common Americans" approves of raping women but we have laws to punish rapists. Because as a country USA does NOT approve it.


Same goes with Islam. The holy Qur'an clearly stated that, religion cannot be forced (Source: Al-Qur'an 2:256).


So it is not even a matter of debate. Just wanted to share the information to those who do not know about it.



Jun 27, 2012 -- 5:58PM, chevy956 wrote:

The fact is that it is being done by Muslims and has been done by Muslims for centuries.



The Hindu leader Mahatma Gandhi wrote about Prophet Muhammad (saw):


“I become more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers and his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle.”(Young India, 1922)


Perhaps you are also not aware of the difference between "Muslims" and "Islam".


Do you want to discuss and debate "Muslims" or "Islam"?  


Jun 27, 2012 -- 5:58PM, chevy956 wrote:

They are your poster children. They are part of the face of Islam. Stop denying it.


If they are acting against the direction given in the Qur'an then they are acting outside the domain of Islam. Calling them "the face of Islam" is ignorance because in such ignorance the vast majority of Muslims (the real "face of Islam") are completely ignored.


Jun 27, 2012 -- 5:58PM, chevy956 wrote:

Your holy Quran also states that Muslims should slay non-believers.


Our holy Qur'an also states that if the non-believers want to live in peace with you then you too should live in peace with them. Do you know the context of each command?


Jun 27, 2012 -- 5:58PM, chevy956 wrote:

Humanity has grown far past your Quran.


Making atom bombs and other WMD is not designed to destroy human beings. Humanity will die when human beings are dead. 


Jun 27, 2012 -- 5:58PM, chevy956 wrote:

Time for you to play catch up with the rest of the world, or face eventual irrelevence or possible extermination if some of your co-religionists ever light off a nuke, dirty bomb or WMD in a Western country.


They haven't made any such WMDs yet. They don't have to do that as Islam is spreading in the West without sword, nuke, WMD or a dirty bomb. Islam is spreading in the West without forced conversions. The proof is right in front of your face.

Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
(Winston Churchill)
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6 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2012 - 6:24AM #95
Ibn
Posts: 6,037

Jun 27, 2012 -- 11:32AM, world citizen wrote:


Al hamdulilahee rabbee al aalameena that we are Muslims, and we pray to die as Muslims, and to meet Allah as Muslims and nothing worth behind this.


Wassalatoo wassalamoo ala Rasulee Allah SAW.


and in the end  and ever full thanks to rabbee alaalameen.



As a courtesy to non-Arabic speaking moderators who must judge the content of all posts for possible ROC violations, it is preferable that posts be written in English.  There is nothing wrong in writing occasionally with another language but it would be courteous to ALL Beliefnet members if it were translated also into English (perhaps in brackets like this).


Thank you for your cooperation with this.


World Citizen, co-moderator
Beliefnet Discuss Islam forum



FYI,


Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the worlds.


Peace & blessings be upon messenger of Allah.


(SAW is also short for what is written before it)

Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
(Winston Churchill)
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6 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2012 - 9:02AM #96
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Jun 27, 2012 -- 6:10PM, chevy956 wrote:


One of your posters made a crack about my former home state and bestiality. I don't appreciate it. Funny that you people cry when I respond in kind. 


"We witnessed the same today when it was denied that most serial killers are atheists.  Unfortunately, atheists have no written standards for behavior, so it's harder to know what their collective beliefs, or lack of them, are. "


Complete and utter BS. Atheism is about lack of belief in gods, no more. I have the same standards of behavior as any other civilized human and a far higher one than the tripe preached in your 'holy" book, or that of some of your compatriots who enjoy harming others in the name of Islam. BY the way, you may cite me an exact source for the serial killer/atheism link or retract your statement and apologize.




Chevy, as you've acknowledged, insulting people and their faith generates an unappreciative response.  Just as you have a right to have an opinion and to express it, so do others.  If you don't appreciate negative opinions and expect apologizes for them, then, please be prepared to offer the same to those who feel insulted by you.


This is a debate board, and discussion goes two ways.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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6 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2012 - 9:24AM #97
browbeaten
Posts: 3,484

Jun 28, 2012 -- 6:10AM, Ibn wrote:



Perhaps you are also not aware of the difference between "Muslims" and "Islam".


Do you want to discuss and debate "Muslims" or "Islam"?  




So anytime an issue comes up Muslims acting on "behalf" of the Qur'an, you're going to throw this out that there is a difference between Muslims and Islam?  Essentially, you are saying that only "good" Muslims practice Islam and all others do not.  How convenient and utter Bull$hit.


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6 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2012 - 10:03AM #98
BDboy
Posts: 8,220

Jun 27, 2012 -- 5:58PM, chevy956 wrote:


Jun 27, 2012 -- 9:24AM, BDboy wrote:


 >>>>>>>Forced conversion is going on right now in India and Pakistanwww.dnaindia.com/world/report_pak-minist...


 


>>>>>>>> I think I made it VERY clear to everyone that, I can speak of what Islam says about forced conversion. It is AGAINIST it.


Also do remember, Pakistan is a Muslim majority country. Had forced conversion was accepted in Islam, there was no need to ban it!!


There are laws against rape in the USA but that does NOT mean there is no rape in the USA!!


I do not think any "Common Americans" approves of raping women but we have laws to punish rapists. Because as a country USA does NOT approve it.


Same goes with Islam. The holy Qur'an clearly stated that, religion cannot be forced (Source: Al-Qur'an 2:256).


So it is not even a matter of debate. Just wanted to share the information to those who do not know about it.


 


 




The fact is that it is being done by Muslims and has been done by Muslims for centuries. They are your poster children. They are part of the face of Islam. Stop denying it.


Your holy Quran also states that Muslims should slay non-believers.


Humanity has grown far past your Quran. Time for you to play catch up with the rest of the world, or face eventual irrelevence or possible extermination if some of your co-religionists ever light off a nuke, dirty bomb or WMD in a Western country.




 


>>>>>>>>> Yes, I was explaining what the holy Qur'an says about the topic. ALSO I have given two very specific examples where Muslims had ample opportunity to forcefully convert but they did NOT do so.


I think you have NOT read my posts. All of your concerns have been answered and addressed.

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2012 - 10:25AM #99
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Jun 28, 2012 -- 9:24AM, browbeaten wrote:


Jun 28, 2012 -- 6:10AM, Ibn wrote:



Perhaps you are also not aware of the difference between "Muslims" and "Islam".


Do you want to discuss and debate "Muslims" or "Islam"?  




So anytime an issue comes up Muslims acting on "behalf" of the Qur'an, you're going to throw this out that there is a difference between Muslims and Islam?  Essentially, you are saying that only "good" Muslims practice Islam and all others do not.  How convenient and utter Bull$hit.




No BS involved.  That there is a difference between the faith and the follower is true for any faith, including yours.  The faith itself is the ideal; the adherents are inherently flawed.  Just as you are not responsible for the bad acts of other Jews, we're not responsible for the bad acts of other Muslims.  


If you insist that the lowest common denominators among Muslims define Islam, then you need to be prepared to allow the same thing for Judaism, especially so since, according to Jews, one not even practice Judaism to be Jewish.  That would mean that everything they do reflects on Judaism, so, anyone who could be defined as Jewish would define Judaism, no matter how far from Judaism their behavior is.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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6 years ago  ::  Jun 28, 2012 - 10:37AM #100
BDboy
Posts: 8,220

Jun 28, 2012 -- 9:24AM, browbeaten wrote:


Jun 28, 2012 -- 6:10AM, Ibn wrote:



Perhaps you are also not aware of the difference between "Muslims" and "Islam".


Do you want to discuss and debate "Muslims" or "Islam"?  




So anytime an issue comes up Muslims acting on "behalf" of the Qur'an, you're going to throw this out that there is a difference between Muslims and Islam?  Essentially, you are saying that only "good" Muslims practice Islam and all others do not.  How convenient and utter Bull$hit.





 


>>>>>>>> Nope. What we have been saying Islam does NOT accept forceful converting. It has been clearly stated in the Qur'an.


Few examples were given where Muslim rulers ruled for many centuries and there are no sitution where mass conversion took place.


So if someone do it privately, it is NOT accepted by Islam.


I can say the same with Judaism. This practice is not seen among Jewish people either.


pretty easy concept.


 




 

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