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Switch to Forum Live View Forced to Convert to Islam!
6 years ago  ::  Jun 20, 2012 - 2:31PM #1
sallum
Posts: 556


 Some people do believe that “many” Moslims through  14 centuries - history Of Islam- did convert to Islam by Force.



This is very silly to Muslims and to Islam As well,…  HERE IS THE FACTS;




1) Faith
| 2) Prayer | 3) The 'Zakat' 
4) The Fast | 5) Pilgrimage (Hajj)


They are the framework of the Muslim life: faith, prayer, concern for the needy, self-purification, and the pilgrimage to Makkah for those who are able.


1) FAITH


There is no god worthy of worship except God and Muhammad is His messenger.


This declaration of faith is called the Shahada, a simple formula which all the faithful pronounce. In Arabic, the first part is la ilaha illa Llah - 'there is no god except God'; ilaha (god) can refer to anything which we may be tempted to put in place of God - wealth, power, and the like. Then comes illa Llah: 'except God', the source of all Creation. The second part of the Shahada is Muhammadun rasulu'Llah: 'Muhammad is the messenger of God.' A message of guidance has come through a man like ourselves.


 


2) PRAYER (


Salat is the name for the obligatory prayers which are performed five times a day, and are a direct link between the worshipper and God.


Prayer Performance ) ( Prayer in Video ) ( Printable Prayer Description ) ( Prayer Schedules ) ( Books About Salat


3) THE 'ZAKAT' )


One of the most important principles of Islam is that all things belong to God, and that wealth is therefore held by human beings in trust.( Zakat Information Center)


4) THE FAST Every year in the month of Ramadan, all Muslims fast from first light until sundown, abstaining from food, drink, and sexual relations. ( Ramadan Information Center ).


 5) PILGRIMAGE (HAJJ) The annual pilgrimage to Makkah - the Hajj - is an obligation only for those who are physically and financially able to perform it. ( Hajj Information Center )


Comments;


1-   Faith        : how can young or adult person can be forced to believe “something” he doesn’t actually do believe!!!? Faith must trade directly to the heart. Again how this act can be forced!!?        .                                        


2-   Prayer      : how can this obligation performed – by force-   five times a day and night and are:  a direct link between the worshipper and God. No communicator is involved; no guard is watching the performer to force him to do the job!!? How this can be forced!!?.


3-   The zakat  : is as “tax” without books all what to do is to count the profits annually and specify the due amount by the law of Zakat,…. How this can be forced to act in accordance with!!?


4-   THE FAST  :  fast from first light until sundown, abstaining from food, drink, and sexual relations.Same and more strange to be “forced” Moslem / converter is not locked @ a room with watch man to keep him following in according with the fasting rules


5-    PILGRIMAGE (HAJJ) The annual pilgrimage to Makkah - the Hajj - is an obligation only for those who are physically and financially able to perform it.


Physically and financially able to be performing the Pilgrimage, who could (man or state) force a man to confirm these positions so he would force him to perform Hajj!!?


Now after all I want to ask how people can be forced to convert to Islam?


How free is converting to Islam?


And what about the turnabout,? and why?

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 20, 2012 - 5:12PM #2
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 19,045

"Convert or die"  


Sorry, many people were forced to convert. People are still being forced to convert to Islam. In order to know this, all you have to do is open the daily paper. 


Christian Filipino migrants forced to convert to Islam
by Santosh Digal 
A Filipino nurse with ten years in Saudi Arabia talks about the dramatic situation of Christian workers, forced to embrace Islam just to keep their job. Despite abuses and violence, migrants still choose the Middle East because of the availability of work


www.asianews.it/news-en/Christian-Filipi...




Pakistan supreme court to decide fate of Hindu woman in Muslim marriage row


Rinkle Kumari, 19, claims she was kidnapped, converted to Islam and married against her will


www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/25/pak...


Police protect girls forced to convert to Islam

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-437871/...




Christian women in Egypt being converted to Islam by force, witness says


www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/christia...


Is a Forced Conversion to Islam Valid?


Fox News journalist Steve Centanni and freelance cameraman Olaf Wiig were kidnapped earlier this month and held captive by Palestinian militants for two weeks before being released on Sunday. Centanni said his captors forced him to convert to Islam.


really this takes minutes to find. 


It might not be proper, but forced conversion has been a part of Islam since its inception.  


Qur'an (8:39) - “And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.”  


Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."  Suras 9 and 5 are the last "revelations" that Muhammad handed down - hence abrogating what came before, which includes the oft-quoted verse 2:256 -"Let there be no compulsion in religion...".


Qur'an (9:5) "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..." 


Qur'an (9:11) - (Continued from above) "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion"  This confirms that Muhammad is speaking of conversion to Islam.


Qur'an (2:193) - "And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion be only for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers."  The key phrase is to fight until "religion be only for Allah."


Christians did the same thing when they conquered people.  forced conversions more or less goes hand in hand with religions who insist their's is the only way. Evangelism is always bad. 

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2012 - 12:55AM #3
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Sorry, but no one can be forced to convert to a religion they haven't accepted willingly.  

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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6 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2012 - 5:38AM #4
Ibn
Posts: 6,037

Anyone who thinks that someone can be forced into Islam has absolutely no understanding of what Islam is. Such a person is making fool of himself by talking of forced conversion into Islam.  

Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
(Winston Churchill)
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6 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2012 - 6:50AM #5
BDboy
Posts: 8,220

Forced conversion is one of them "Fantastic myths" on Islam. As per teachings of Islam religion cannot to forced upon non-Muslims.


History shows us Muslims as a community followed this teachings. One example was given about ONE Indian lady. Now do understand India was ruled by Muslims for around 1000 years. Today over 86% of total Indian population are Hindus (Idol worshippers).


Now just read up European history around 1492 when Muslims and Jews were given specific choices. Convert, deport or die (In Spain). At that time many Jews found safe places among Muslim communities all over the world.


Similar things can be said about Europe as well. Muslims ruled southern Europe for around 800 years but do not have case of mass conversions written in history.


Today in western world Islam is the fastest growing religion. I do not think Muslims are in a position to force anyone to accept Islam.


Just wanted to share some observations about this "Myth" about Islam. Forcing people unto religion is AGAINST scriptures and practice of Muslims. If anyone violates these teachings, it can be considered UNislamic.


Hope this helps...

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2012 - 8:13AM #6
Ibn
Posts: 6,037

Jun 20, 2012 -- 5:12PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Is a Forced Conversion to Islam Valid?


It's not only invalid but it is impossible. Anyone who does not accept Islam willingly does not enter Islam. Therefore, there is never any forced conversion as there is never any conversion in such a case.


Jun 20, 2012 -- 5:12PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

Fox News journalist Steve Centanni and freelance cameraman Olaf Wiig were kidnapped earlier this month and held captive by Palestinian militants for two weeks before being released on Sunday. Centanni said his captors forced him to convert to Islam.


Centanni is lying.


Jun 20, 2012 -- 5:12PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

really this takes minutes to find.


It might not be proper, but forced conversion has been a part of Islam since its inception.


Qur'an (8:39) - “And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.”



Qur'an (8:39) - And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (persecution of Muslims in Makkah and Madina) and the religion (of Islam) will all be (allowed) for Allah Alone. But if they (the idol worshippers of Makkah) cease (persecuting you), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.”


Jun 20, 2012 -- 5:12PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."



(Qur'an 9:29) Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (and persecute you or help those who persecute you, even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued (after persecuting you or helping the persecuters to have your men killed)."


Jun 20, 2012 -- 5:12PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Suras 9 and 5 are the last "revelations" that Muhammad handed down - hence abrogating what came before, which includes the oft-quoted verse 2:256 -"Let there be no compulsion in religion...".


Where did you get the idea that Suras 9 and 5 are the last revelations?


The commandment “fight those” was carried out (as commanded) well before the last revelation in the plains of Arafah during the farewell haj [before passing away of the prophet (pbuh)]. Therefore, the command had already been fulfilled against those mentioned (idol worshippers of Makkah and Jewish enemies of Muslims in Madina at the time). The idol worshipping persecuters of Muslims (in Makkah) were dealt with first and then the treacherous Jews of Madina were dealt with after that, well before the farewell haj.


Jun 20, 2012 -- 5:12PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Qur'an (9:5) "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..."



Qur'an (9:5) "(The idol worshippers of Makkah have killed three of your men when there was a treaty between you against any fighting for ten years. Therefore, the treaty is broken by the idol worshippers and you are now free from the obligations of the treaty. You are still not to fight them during the four forbidden months.) But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans (who have killed your three men and broken the treaty) wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent (of their crime), and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them, surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful (therefore you should also be forgiving and merciful)."  


Jun 20, 2012 -- 5:12PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Qur'an (9:11) - (Continued from above) "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion" This confirms that Muhammad is speaking of conversion to Islam.


Allah is not speaking of forced conversion. “If they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due” means THEY convert willingly. If THEY don’t convert willingly then then they can’t be forced to become Muslims as there is no compulsion in religion (2:256). The verse 2:256 still applies. It has never been abrogated.


Jun 20, 2012 -- 5:12PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Qur'an (2:193) - "And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion be only for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers." The key phrase is to fight until "religion be only for Allah."


The persecution of Muslims in Makkah by the Pagans (idol worshippers) was to stop Muslims worshipping Allah instead of idols. The key phrase is “until persecution is no more”. Islam haters ignore this phrase for obvious reason.


Jun 20, 2012 -- 5:12PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Christians did the same thing when they conquered people. forced conversions more or less goes hand in hand with religions who insist their's is the only way. Evangelism is always bad.



Today the persecution in Palestine is by the people who insist that they are the people who are G-d’s only chosen people and no one else can be “chosen” by G-d. They had even killed 3000 in one day right under the nose of their G-d for worshipping the golden calf.

Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
(Winston Churchill)
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6 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2012 - 10:17AM #7
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 19,045

Denial is a wonderful thing, it allows one to ignore 1400 years of history. Forced conversion was a reality, it is a reality and it will continue to be a reality. 


How can you force someone to convert? By physical intimidation, by threats, by economic sanction, by persecution, by social pressures, by treating non-Muslims as worthless people (Dhimi again),  by all sorts of ways, all of which have been employed by Muslims over the centuries. Does that mean that someone's heart was changed by these methods and that the forced converts became "true Muslims"? Frankly, I do not care.  (Although it is obvious that  their children and their childrens' children did.)


I did not bring up this issue, however, if you want to end the problem and end the perception (which is just a reflection of truth) that there are forced conversions to Islam, end forced conversions. If you really want to end the problem of forced conversion and if you really believed in freedom of choice of religion then you would end all Muslim evangelism. 


Would any of you actually address the reports of forced conversion listed or any of the other reports of forced conversion? And if not, why not? 

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2012 - 10:48AM #8
sallum
Posts: 556

[


"Convert or die"  


Sorry, many people were forced to convert. People are still being forced to convert to Islam. In order to know this, all you have to do is open the daily paper. 


 ----


 


After all these explanation you still come and tell about forcing to convert to Islam!


There is no “force concept” converting to Islam.


 Moslem never take duress converting,… it will never work… all what can be done is to call non Muslim to Islam @ hope he will be guided  through the truth of Islam, Truth of Islam is the wide explanation I am with per previous post.


 


Islam is standing in the hearts, no ONE But ALLAH Almighty can touch the hearts. All Muslims do understand this aspect and it is one of the top beliefs no single doubt no hesitate, it is totally fixed confirmed to allllllll Muslims. So no Muslim will come to force anything anywhere.


 


Media is stories and if you look deeply with open mind about the duress and forces to convert to Islam which you pionted, sure you will find them not true and not logic as well.


 


Again, pls tell me how Man can stand between the Lord Almighty and His slave’s heart.?


How can be fulfilling celebration to the converter among his Moslem community?


How the (forced Converter) will achieve the Obligation of Islam?


 


There is nothing called Forced to convert to Islam. But only with Islam Phobia’s tongs at fiction screw tells. And you willfully is taking these tongs  maybe because it does meet your desires.


 


sallum


quote author=33803647 post=521051803]


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6 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2012 - 11:12AM #9
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 19,045

You can ignore facts, you can ignore history, but doing so does not change anything.


Has it occurred to you that some of us have personal knowledge of forced conversions as they have affected family, friends and associates? Before you make silly statements that "there is no forced conversion in Islam" you might take a moment to remember that you are addressing people who know better. 

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6 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2012 - 12:01PM #10
browbeaten
Posts: 3,484

Jun 21, 2012 -- 11:12AM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


You can ignore facts, you can ignore history, but doing so does not change anything.


Has it occurred to you that some of us have personal knowledge of forced conversions as they have affected family, friends and associates? Before you make silly statements that "there is no forced conversion in Islam" you might take a moment to remember that you are addressing people who know better. 




It is the same rationale used to explain away all the negative beliefs and actions of Islam. 


Just because most Muslims do, doesn't mean Islam (Qur'an) does approve/force/allow/etc (choose your own adjective)...wink, wink.


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