Post Reply
Page 1 of 4  •  1 2 3 4 Next
Switch to Forum Live View How this world will come to an end
2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2012 - 8:25AM #1
Newtonian
Posts: 12,196


Hi You all!



As a spin off from the Bible being our highest authority thread, as well as our joy in our changes in belief thread, we now can consider the future somewhat (sort of) - as our September 2012  study edition of the Watchtower is now available to all for free download here:


www.jw.org/index.html?option=QrYQCsVrGZN...



I think the first study article will be of interest to many, entitiled:



How this world will come to an end



As always, there are many Scriptures cited and/or quoted - some of which we will read together in all congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide (in many languages).



Of course, I was kidding when referring to our time machine whereby we view future issues of our magazines!



However, the article is literal when referring to our consideration of 10 future events - and I invite you all to pick any of these future events to post on.



Of course, it is the Bible alone that accurately foretells the future - so these are Bible prophecies we will be studying about the week of October 29- November 4, 2012.



I will pick this one for starters:



(1 Thessalonians 5:1-6) . . .Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, YOU need nothing to be written to YOU. 2 For YOU yourselves know quite well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. 3 Whenever it is that they are saying: "Peace and security!" then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape. 4 But YOU, brothers, YOU are not in darkness, so that that day should overtake YOU as it would thieves, 5 for YOU are all sons of light and sons of day. We belong neither to night nor to darkness. 6 So, then, let us not sleep on as the rest do, but let us stay awake and keep our senses.



Comments anyone?



Will, for example, the UN appear to succeed once they expose religion as a major obstacle to peace - as most religions are not a force for peace?



See:


www.watchtower.org/e/201101/article_01.h...


Moderated by nanalulu222 on Jun 18, 2012 - 02:26PM
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2012 - 4:29PM #2
Theo
Posts: 4,691

2 Peter 3:5-7 > For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 


How will this world end?  By fire. 


~ Theophilus

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2012 - 4:34PM #3
rangerken
Posts: 16,408

Good topic! Let's keep things in the JW vs. non JW opinion/faith/belief area. This should be interesting so thanks, Newtonian.


Rangerken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2012 - 7:25PM #4
Newtonian
Posts: 12,196

Jun 17, 2012 -- 4:34PM, rangerken wrote:


Good topic! Let's keep things in the JW vs. non JW opinion/faith/belief area. This should be interesting so thanks, Newtonian.


Rangerken




You are welcome rangerken, and thank you for appreciating.   Note that we do not think "world" means "earth" - since the Bible teaches the world was destroyed at the flood - but not the earth:


(2 Peter 3:5, 6) 5 For, according to their wish, this fact escapes their notice, that there were heavens from of old and an earth standing compactly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and by those [means] the world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water.


The Bible indicates clearly the earth was flooded, but not destroyed.   See the following verses showing, as Theo noted, the upcoming destruction by fire - but of only the ungodly men!


In Psalms 37, which Jesus quoted from in his sermon on the mount when he said the meek shall inherit the earth (Matthew 5:5 quoting Psalms 37:11, clearly states the righteous will live forever upon the earth:


(Psalm 37:29) The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.


Other translations of Ps. 37:29 include:


From the Greek:


(ABP+)  But the justG1342 G1161 shall inheritG2816 the earth,G1093 andG2532 encampG2681 intoG1519 the eonG165 of the eonG165 uponG1909 it.G1473


(Brenton)  But the righteous shall inherit the earth, and dwell upon it for ever.


From Thayer's Greek lexicon via e-sword:


"G1093 γῆ gē


Thayer Definition: 1) arable land 2) the ground, the earth as a standing place 3) the main land as opposed to the sea or water 4) the earth as a whole 4a) the earth as opposed to the heavens 4b) the inhabited earth, the abode of men and animals 5) a country, land enclosed within fixed boundaries, a tract of land, territory, region"


Of course, in English "ge" in found as a prefix in words like geology, geography, geo-chemistry, etc.


The point being that man will dwell on the earth forever.


From the Hebrew:


(KJV+)  The righteousH6662 shall inheritH3423 the land,H776 and dwellH7931 thereinH5921 for ever.H5703


(LITV)  The righteous shall inherit the earth and live on it forever.


From Strong's Hebrew dictionary:


"H776 ארץ 'erets eh'-rets


From an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land)"


Sadly, some translations confuse the reader by translating these words as both "earth" and "world."   However, "world" is a separate word in Greek: "kosmos" not "ge."


NW translates Hebrew erets and Greek ge as "earth" but translates Greek "kosmos" as "world."


Thus the world (kosmos) is coming to an end while the earth (ge) will remain forever!


In fact, God will preserve the earth by destroying the destroyers of the earth as foretold in Revelation 11:18.


Compare the movie "The day the earth stood still" - notably the recent remake - where the earth is said to be near the tipping point and they intend to save the earth, not for man but from man!


The good news, note the end of the movie, is that God will actually save the earth for man, but also from man!   Of course, the movie is good entertainment but has some truths - many scientists agree earth is near the "tipping point" and that something must be done soon!




Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2012 - 7:43PM #5
Newtonian
Posts: 12,196

Jun 17, 2012 -- 4:29PM, Theo wrote:


2 Peter 3:5-7 > For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 


How will this world end?  By fire. 


~ Theophilus




Theo - that is true, symbolically (though God may use literal fire, or even nuclear fire, also).


Note please my response to rangerken - this account you are quoting uses a different Greek word for world (kosmos - world which will be destroyed) and earth (ge - earth which will not be destroyed).


Note that the wicked world of mankind was destroyed at the flood, but the planet earth was not destroyed.  


Remember, also, the rainbow covenant (Genesis) and the covenant of peace with the animals (Hosea).


Also remember the great evening meal of God - obviously the animals would not be able to enjoy this final meat eating meal (they will be vegetarian from then on - see Isaiah 11:6-9; 65:25) if the planet was going to be destoyed!


Concerning this final meat eating meal for the birds and wild beasts of the earth right after Armageddon, note these Biblical accounts:


(Revelation 19:17, 18) . . .I saw also an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice and said to all the birds that fly in midheaven: “Come here, be gathered together to the great evening meal of God, 18 that YOU may eat the fleshy parts of kings and the fleshy parts of military commanders and the fleshy parts of strong men and the fleshy parts of horses and of those seated upon them, and the fleshy parts of all, of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great.”


(Ezekiel 39:17-20) 17 “And as regards you, O son of man, this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ‘Say to the birds of every sort of wing and to all the wild beasts of the field: “Collect yourselves together and come. Gather yourselves together all around to my sacrifice, which I am sacrificing for YOU, a great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel. And YOU will certainly eat flesh and drink blood. 18 The flesh of mighty ones YOU will eat, and the blood of the chieftains of the earth YOU will drink, rams, young male sheep, and he-goats, young bulls, the fatlings of Ba′shan all of them. 19 And YOU will be certain to eat fat to satisfaction and to drink blood to drunkenness, from my sacrifice that I will sacrifice for YOU.”’ 20 “‘And YOU must get satisfied at my table on horses and charioteers, mighty persons and all sorts of warriors,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.


See the movie "The Birds" (Alfred Hitchcock) but note the animals are eating the flesh of those killed at Armageddon, not attacking people still living as in the movie, which quotes one of these Biblical accounts, btw.


After the flesh is eaten, there will, of course, be many bones.  Ezekiel explains how earth will then be cleansed after Armageddon and God's great evening meal for the animals:'


(Ezekiel 39:14-16) . . . “‘And there will be men for continual [employment] whom they will divide off, passing along through the land, burying, with those passing through, those left remaining on the surface of the earth, in order to cleanse it. To the end of seven months they will keep making search. 15 And those passing through must pass along through the land, and should one actually see the bone of a man he must also build beside it a marker, until those who do the burying will have buried it in the Valley of Gog’s Crowd. 16 And the name of [the] city will also be Ha·mo′nah. And they will have to cleanse the land.’


Of course, time will tell how much of this is literal - I am simply quoting the Biblical accounts.



 

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2012 - 8:44PM #6
Knowsnothing
Posts: 1,150

Jun 17, 2012 -- 7:43PM, Newtonian wrote:


Jun 17, 2012 -- 4:29PM, Theo wrote:


2 Peter 3:5-7 > For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 


How will this world end?  By fire. 


~ Theophilus




Theo - that is true, symbolically (though God may use literal fire, or even nuclear fire, also).


Note please my response to rangerken - this account you are quoting uses a different Greek word for world (kosmos - world which will be destroyed) and earth (ge - earth which will not be destroyed).


Note that the wicked world of mankind was destroyed at the flood, but the planet earth was not destroyed.  


Remember, also, the rainbow covenant (Genesis) and the covenant of peace with the animals (Hosea).


Also remember the great evening meal of God - obviously the animals would not be able to enjoy this final meat eating meal (they will be vegetarian from then on - see Isaiah 11:6-9; 65:25) if the planet was going to be destoyed!


Concerning this final meat eating meal for the birds and wild beasts of the earth right after Armageddon, note these Biblical accounts:


(Revelation 19:17, 18) . . .I saw also an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice and said to all the birds that fly in midheaven: “Come here, be gathered together to the great evening meal of God, 18 that YOU may eat the fleshy parts of kings and the fleshy parts of military commanders and the fleshy parts of strong men and the fleshy parts of horses and of those seated upon them, and the fleshy parts of all, of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great.”


(Ezekiel 39:17-20) 17 “And as regards you, O son of man, this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ‘Say to the birds of every sort of wing and to all the wild beasts of the field: “Collect yourselves together and come. Gather yourselves together all around to my sacrifice, which I am sacrificing for YOU, a great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel. And YOU will certainly eat flesh and drink blood. 18 The flesh of mighty ones YOU will eat, and the blood of the chieftains of the earth YOU will drink, rams, young male sheep, and he-goats, young bulls, the fatlings of Ba′shan all of them. 19 And YOU will be certain to eat fat to satisfaction and to drink blood to drunkenness, from my sacrifice that I will sacrifice for YOU.”’ 20 “‘And YOU must get satisfied at my table on horses and charioteers, mighty persons and all sorts of warriors,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.


See the movie "The Birds" (Alfred Hitchcock) but note the animals are eating the flesh of those killed at Armageddon, not attacking people still living as in the movie, which quotes one of these Biblical accounts, btw.


After the flesh is eaten, there will, of course, be many bones.  Ezekiel explains how earth will then be cleansed after Armageddon and God's great evening meal for the animals:'


(Ezekiel 39:14-16) . . . “‘And there will be men for continual [employment] whom they will divide off, passing along through the land, burying, with those passing through, those left remaining on the surface of the earth, in order to cleanse it. To the end of seven months they will keep making search. 15 And those passing through must pass along through the land, and should one actually see the bone of a man he must also build beside it a marker, until those who do the burying will have buried it in the Valley of Gog’s Crowd. 16 And the name of [the] city will also be Ha·mo′nah. And they will have to cleanse the land.’


Of course, time will tell how much of this is literal - I am simply quoting the Biblical accounts.




This is disgusting.  That God would revel in the piles of dead bodies...  It's like he's dancing in heaven...


Then again this perfectly reflects the mentality of those who wrote it, barbaric ancient men, so it's not too surprising this was their world view.


The world, i.e. people, will likely exhaust the world's resources, leading to a mass die-off as best scenario, nuclear armageddon as worst.  The literal world will either be consumed by the expanding sun, or no longer allow life to be sustained via the sun's death or again through nuclear armageddon.


As for the best case scenario, while it sounds grim, it allows humanity to continue and rebuild, but it won't come nicely.  The bigger they are, the harder they fall.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2012 - 9:29PM #7
Ed_3
Posts: 500

Jun 17, 2012 -- 8:44PM, Knowsnothing wrote:


Jun 17, 2012 -- 7:43PM, Newtonian wrote:


Jun 17, 2012 -- 4:29PM, Theo wrote:


2 Peter 3:5-7 > For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 


How will this world end?  By fire. 


~ Theophilus




Theo - that is true, symbolically (though God may use literal fire, or even nuclear fire, also).


Note please my response to rangerken - this account you are quoting uses a different Greek word for world (kosmos - world which will be destroyed) and earth (ge - earth which will not be destroyed).


Note that the wicked world of mankind was destroyed at the flood, but the planet earth was not destroyed.  


Remember, also, the rainbow covenant (Genesis) and the covenant of peace with the animals (Hosea).


Also remember the great evening meal of God - obviously the animals would not be able to enjoy this final meat eating meal (they will be vegetarian from then on - see Isaiah 11:6-9; 65:25) if the planet was going to be destoyed!


Concerning this final meat eating meal for the birds and wild beasts of the earth right after Armageddon, note these Biblical accounts:


(Revelation 19:17, 18) . . .I saw also an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice and said to all the birds that fly in midheaven: “Come here, be gathered together to the great evening meal of God, 18 that YOU may eat the fleshy parts of kings and the fleshy parts of military commanders and the fleshy parts of strong men and the fleshy parts of horses and of those seated upon them, and the fleshy parts of all, of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great.”


(Ezekiel 39:17-20) 17 “And as regards you, O son of man, this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ‘Say to the birds of every sort of wing and to all the wild beasts of the field: “Collect yourselves together and come. Gather yourselves together all around to my sacrifice, which I am sacrificing for YOU, a great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel. And YOU will certainly eat flesh and drink blood. 18 The flesh of mighty ones YOU will eat, and the blood of the chieftains of the earth YOU will drink, rams, young male sheep, and he-goats, young bulls, the fatlings of Ba′shan all of them. 19 And YOU will be certain to eat fat to satisfaction and to drink blood to drunkenness, from my sacrifice that I will sacrifice for YOU.”’ 20 “‘And YOU must get satisfied at my table on horses and charioteers, mighty persons and all sorts of warriors,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.


See the movie "The Birds" (Alfred Hitchcock) but note the animals are eating the flesh of those killed at Armageddon, not attacking people still living as in the movie, which quotes one of these Biblical accounts, btw.


After the flesh is eaten, there will, of course, be many bones.  Ezekiel explains how earth will then be cleansed after Armageddon and God's great evening meal for the animals:'


(Ezekiel 39:14-16) . . . “‘And there will be men for continual [employment] whom they will divide off, passing along through the land, burying, with those passing through, those left remaining on the surface of the earth, in order to cleanse it. To the end of seven months they will keep making search. 15 And those passing through must pass along through the land, and should one actually see the bone of a man he must also build beside it a marker, until those who do the burying will have buried it in the Valley of Gog’s Crowd. 16 And the name of [the] city will also be Ha·mo′nah. And they will have to cleanse the land.’


Of course, time will tell how much of this is literal - I am simply quoting the Biblical accounts.




This is disgusting.  That God would revel in the piles of dead bodies...  It's like he's dancing in heaven...


Then again this perfectly reflects the mentality of those who wrote it, barbaric ancient men, so it's not too surprising this was their world view.


The world, i.e. people, will likely exhaust the world's resources, leading to a mass die-off as best scenario, nuclear armageddon as worst.  The literal world will either be consumed by the expanding sun, or no longer allow life to be sustained via the sun's death or again through nuclear armageddon.


As for the best case scenario, while it sounds grim, it allows humanity to continue and rebuild, but it won't come nicely.  The bigger they are, the harder they fall.




Yeah, from reading those scriptures, you would think that Jehovah was some sort of blood-thristy ghoul. However, as Knowsnothing pointed out, a lot of the writing sounds more as if it's reflecting the attitudes and the mentality of the men who wrote it.


Also, as I stated in the "Armageddon" thread, some of Jehovah's outbursts and fits of anger in connection to his ravagings during the end of the world...make him sound more like a boogy man...rather than like a mature, compassionate, God of love.


Edited: Corrected a few typos.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2012 - 11:44PM #8
Newtonian
Posts: 12,196

Knowsnothing - Did you find the movie "The Day the Earth Stood still" disgusting?   Helen was upset, but she understood they were saving earth from man by destroying all mankind.   Helen pleaded "we could change."


Well, that's true.   Jehovah will not bring the calamity if man repents - in fact Jehovah desires all to attain to repentance - see 2 Peter 3:9.


However, the movie is correct - earth is near the tipping point - man is ruining this earth.   Something must be done soon.   Revelation 11:18 warns that God will bring to ruin those ruining the earth.


I find it disgusting that man is ruining this earth - and if man does not stop, then I consider God's bringing to ruin those ruining this earth to be just. 


I like the movie, btw.   There were good morals to the story.


Now, as you know, I do not believe the astronomers who predict doom for this planet - but that is another thread!

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2012 - 1:42AM #9
Theo
Posts: 4,691

2 Peter 3:5-7 > For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 


The world that once existed before the flood, existed on planet Earth - and was destroyed by the flood, even so, planet Earth continued to exist - we agree.


The heavens and earth that now are; is the world that came to exist after the flood, and as time passed, the world as it existed in the first century, and the world as it exists today... this world has been appointed to a similar judgment to that suffered by the former world. And according to St. Peter, that judgment will be by fire... The Bible Student need only consider what else St. Peter had to say about this subject in order to understand his meaning... 2 Peter 3:10-13 > But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.  Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?


1) the elements will melt


2) fervent heat


3) the earth (i.e. the planet) and its works (things done on earth) will be burned up


4) all these things (the elements and the works of earth) will be dissolved


5) The heavens will pass away with great noise and be dissolved - being on fire.


6) and the elements (earth wind and water) will melt with fervent heat.


The flood only destroyed the world that once was... the planet remained firm, if not a bit soggy for awhile. But the judgment of fire in the day of the Lord will cause all the works of man to be burned up, the very atmosphere will catch on fire and cease to exist, and the elements of earth will melt and be dissolved. This sounds to me like this planet will be destroyed - leaving nothing behind but a ring of hot rubble orbiting around the sun.


Okay, I added that part about a new asteroid field orbiting the sun.


Your whole spiel about the Greek making a distinction between the world and the earth is, as best I can tell, nothing but mud thrown into the water to confuse the issue. Sure there is a difference between Kosmos and Gee' - meaning world and earth respectively. But in the verses in question, the world is the world of men, and the earth includes the heavens and the elements of earth... and the works of men = the world. So your point means nothing against the meaning of the text as is clearly laid out in the NKJV, as quoted in this post.


This world is toast... which is why God will create all things new, a new heavens and a new earth.


As for our friends who think our understanding of God is unjust for judging mankind and destroying the wicked and the earth... all I can say, is Who are you to judge God? Will the creature talk back to the Creator and say... What do you think you're doing???


When my children were younger and feeling their oats, my daughter once complained against me for not making decisions to her liking... to which I said, "This is my life and these are my decisions not yours, your along for the ride until your grown and living on your own... then you get to make the calls"


The thing we all need to understand is that it's not about us - we're kids along for the ride. It's about God, He's the rule maker, and we can either go along with Him, knowing He has our best interests in mind, or accuse, resist and obstruct Him, in which case we will be judged according to our works. Guess which side Satan takes in the big picture... not God's.  


~ Theophilus

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2012 - 8:33AM #10
Svetlana
Posts: 11,308

Not all prophets belong to a specific religion:


"Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice."


~ Robert Frost


I think Mr. Frost is on to something..........

"No matter how big and bad you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone, you answer it."  ~ (common sense)

"Never place a period where God has placed a comma."  ~ Gracie Allen

"I care not for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it." ~ Abraham Lincoln

"I wonder sometimes if we ever give God a headache." ~ Dontay Hall, age 8
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 1 of 4  •  1 2 3 4 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook