Jun 20, 2012 -- 10:26PM, Newtonian wrote:

Jun 20, 2012 -- 3:29AM, Ed_3 wrote:

Jun 18, 2012 -- 11:29AM, Knowsnothing wrote:

First, I'll respond to Newtonian. I think I saw that movie a while back. It was pretty cool...What I find particularly disgusting about those accounts in the bible, is that god practically dances on the graves of the destroyed. You as a human would never think of such a repulsive act. It's disrespectful, and I guess I'm just expecting at least a better attitude from one who calls himself god.

I agree with Knowsnothing. The aliens in TDTESS never reveled over the fact that they were going to destroy humans on earth to rid the planet of the corruption caused by them. However, in the Bible, Jehovah revels over the fact that he is going to destroy humans off the face of the earth.

False Ed - you were not aware of 2 Peter 3:9?   I don't know where  you are getting those false ideas - but you should be more careful about falsely accusing God.

Newtonian, perhaps 'reveling' was too strong of a word. However, the scripture that I had in mind when I said that was Jeremiah 25:33:

And those slain by Jehovah will certainly come to be in that day from one end of the earth clear to the other end of the earth. They will not be bewailed, neither will they be gathered up or be buried. As manure on the surface of the ground they will become.’

Also, I would be curious to know what scriptures that Knowsnothing had in mind when he said that Jehovah practically dances on the graves of the destroyed.

Newtonian, I think that's interesting how some scriptures paint a certain picture of God, while other scriptures seem to paint a different picture of God.

And an example of this is what we were discussing about Genesis 19 concerning how God felt that he had to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them because those cities were suppose to have been so wicked. And Lot's sons-in-law were destroyed with the cities also...simply because they didn't heed a last minute warning...for which they had no proof of...even though they otherwise didn't seem to qualify for destruction.

Plus, Newtonian, you did not do a good job in defending yours and the Watchtower's point of view on this matter.

To clarify my statements 'reveling' and god 'dancing on the graves' of his adversaries, here are some texts that display the callousness of it all.

(Revelation 19:17, 18) . . .I saw also an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice and said to all the birds that fly in midheaven: “Come here, be gathered together to the great evening meal of God, 18 that YOU may eat the fleshy parts of kings and the fleshy parts of military commanders and the fleshy parts of strong men and the fleshy parts of horses and of those seated upon them, and the fleshy parts of all, of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great.”

(Ezekiel 39:17-20) 17 “And as regards you, O son of man, this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ‘Say to the birds of every sort of wing and to all the wild beasts of the field: “Collect yourselves together and come. Gather yourselves together all around to my sacrifice, which I am sacrificing for YOU, a great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel. And YOU will certainly eat flesh and drink blood. 18 The flesh of mighty ones YOU will eat, and the blood of the chieftains of the earth YOU will drink, rams, young male sheep, and he-goats, young bulls, the fatlings of Ba′shan all of them. 19 And YOU will be certain to eat fat to satisfaction and to drink blood to drunkenness, from my sacrifice that I will sacrifice for YOU.”’ 20 “‘And YOU must get satisfied at my table on horses and charioteers, mighty persons and all sorts of warriors,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.

(Psalms 2:4,5 NIV) The One enthroned in heaven laughs;
    the Lord scoffs at them.
⁵ He rebukes them in his anger
    and terrifies them in his wrath, saying,

(Romans 12:19) ¹⁹ Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”^d]">[d] says the Lord.

(Exodus 15:3) The Lord is a warrior;
    the Lord is his name.

Christians love to speak of god's love and mercy.  All I see is pettiness, unjustified wrath and anger.  The omnipotent, the eternal cannot devise another way to deal with his 'adversaries'? Why does he have to resort to violence?  Do you realize all the other powerful acts god could perform that would 1.) prevent further violence and 2.) made it patently known that indeed he is god, and not some fantasy, ancient, tribal deity?

In doing so, he would be what I consider a truly great being and he would leave no doubt in anyone's mind as to who he is.  There would be no confusion in the world as to his identity.

For bible god, it's god's way or the highway.  The highway ain't pretty.  Get prepared to get slaughtered and spread about like feces.  The bible's words, not mine.

P.S. look up the Skeptics Anotated Bible on Google, or the Evil Bible.  They give another point of view on the bible, justifying all I have written here.  Thankfully, we don't need to worry such an entity exists, because such cruelty defies reason.

Ed - I did not claim that Sodom had the same warning Jesus foretells man will have before the end comes (Matthew 24:14; Mark 13:10).

Yes, Jehovah's Witnesses do clear Jehovah of the many reproaches various posters bring on Him - but Jesus is the greatest Witness (Revelation 1:5).

You should listen to Jehovah's loyal Witnesses who praise Jehovah for his love and his personality.

You should also listen to Jesus before concluding what the ultimate judgment is for those in Sodom:

(Matthew 11:20-24) . . .Then he started to reproach the cities in which most of his powerful works had taken place, because they did not repent: 21 “Woe to you, Cho·ra′zin! Woe to you, Beth·sa′i·da! because if the powerful works had taken place in Tyre and Si′don that took place in YOU, they would long ago have repented in sackcloth and ashes. 22 Consequently I say to YOU, It will be more endurable for Tyre and Si′don on Judgment Day than for YOU. 23 And you, Ca·per′na·um, will you perhaps be exalted to heaven? Down to Ha′des you will come; because if the powerful works that took place in you had taken place in Sod′om, it would have remained until this very day. 24 Consequently I say to YOU people, It will be more endurable for the land of Sod′om on Judgment Day than for you.”

Note please that while those in Capernaum were not worthy of the heavenly calling, they are not judged worthy of Gehenna either - rather they are (as a group) in hades, not Gehenna.

Remember, Christendom's teachings about hades are false - they do paint God as cruel.   Jesus revealed in Revelation 20:13,14 that those in hades are dead (hence are not being tormented) and that all in hades are released (opposite to what Christendom teaches).

And what will those in hades be brought back to - the opposite again of what Christendom teaches for those in hades - they will be in paradise, as Jesus also assured the evildoer executed at his side.

Of course, if you listen to those who paint God as cruel, you may join them in condemning God, or worse, serving a cruel God because of his cruelty.

However, if you listen to Jehovah's loyal Witnesses, your heart will be filled with love for Jehovah and for all!

But its your choice - all we can do is witness as loyal Witnesses of Jehovah, our loving Creator!

Hi Kemmer! - I missed you - how are you?

So how do you propose all suffering be brought to an end?   See my new thread on this - but if you post on it please try to post something positive or beneficial.

I consider religion to be one of the causes of needless suffering and death in this world - and religions backing of wars, or even inciting wars being among the reasons.   What do you think?

Our newest article also shows we do not know who will be among the leaders in that final cry of peace and security.   New to me, and I think to us, is the possibility religious leaders may join in this cry of peace and security!

See the actual articles should you choose to download the issue.

So how do you propose all suffering be brought to an end?... if you post on it please try to post something positive or beneficial.

Personal suffering ends at death--we presume, because no one has ever returned from thence with a report.  There will always be those who suffer, physically and mentally, and since I do not subscribe to your peculiar vision of "eternity" I do not foresee the ending of suffering any time soon.

I consider religion to be one of the causes of needless suffering and death in this world - and religions backing of wars, or even inciting wars being among the reasons.   What do you think?

In the case of wannabe retro Islamists homesick for the 10th century, yes; but I cannot think of a single Western nation which cares enough about its or other's religions enough to shoot somebody over it.