Post Reply
Page 1 of 18  •  1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 18 Next
Switch to Forum Live View Fully god and fully man is a contradiction.
2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 7:14AM #1
Kwinters
Posts: 21,923

If we list the attributes of for what it means to be fully human and what it means to be fully god, it is perfectly clear that one being cannot be both simultaneously. Thus we can reject all of Christian claims about Jesus that rely upon this assumption as invalid, since not even a god can overcome a logical contradiction.

Further, blind faith is no answer to such a logical contradiction, merely an avoidance of confronting the outcome of an investigation. 

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 8:26AM #2
Paladinsf
Posts: 3,660

"Further, blind faith is no answer to such a logical contradiction, merely an avoidance of confronting the outcome of an investigation. "



Oh but it IS. Remember Aquinas, "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary."


The true believers say, "Logic be damned along with the Devil's whore, reason. Jus believe, Son. God he'll take'a care'a da res'."Wink


The World is divided into armed camps ready to commit genocide just because we can't agree on whose fairy tales to believe.
The belief in supernatural religion will kill us all if we don't outgrow it.

When I first read "End of Faith" I thought Sam went too far. The more I read and listen to these "believers" the more I wonder if maybe he wasn't right after all.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 9:02AM #3
Jiwe
Posts: 492

Jun 15, 2012 -- 7:14AM, Kwinters wrote:


If we list the attributes of for what it means to be fully human and what it means to be fully god, it is perfectly clear that one being cannot be both simultaneously. Thus we can reject all of Christian claims about Jesus that rely upon this assumption as invalid, since not even a god can overcome a logical contradiction.

Further, blind faith is no answer to such a logical contradiction, merely an avoidance of confronting the outcome of an investigation. 




I wasn't aware that there was such an exhaustive and agreed upon list of attributes for being human or for being God. Do you mind presenting it here?


James

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 9:20AM #4
miknik5
Posts: 7,684

Jun 15, 2012 -- 7:14AM, Kwinters wrote:


If we list the attributes of for what it means to be fully human and what it means to be fully god, it is perfectly clear that one being cannot be both simultaneously. Thus we can reject all of Christian claims about Jesus that rely upon this assumption as invalid, since not even a god can overcome a logical contradiction.

Further, blind faith is no answer to such a logical contradiction, merely an avoidance of confronting the outcome of an investigation. 





SON OF GOD/SON OF MAN is not a contradiction...to be FIRST means that the ONE who is FIRST has left an impression, a mold if you will, which ALL are called to follow in..


And since HE is also identified as the SON OF GOD...than it must be a PERFECT MOLD/IMAGE

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 9:41AM #5
koolpoi
Posts: 6,442

Jun 15, 2012 -- 9:20AM, miknik5 wrote:


Jun 15, 2012 -- 7:14AM, Kwinters wrote:


If we list the attributes of for what it means to be fully human and what it means to be fully god, it is perfectly clear that one being cannot be both simultaneously. Thus we can reject all of Christian claims about Jesus that rely upon this assumption as invalid, since not even a god can overcome a logical contradiction.

Further, blind faith is no answer to such a logical contradiction, merely an avoidance of confronting the outcome of an investigation. 





SON OF GOD/SON OF MAN is not a contradiction...to be FIRST means that the ONE who is FIRST has left an impression, a mold if you will, which ALL are called to follow in..


And since HE is also identified as the SON OF GOD...than it must be a PERFECT MOLD/IMAGE




Why must God's son be perfect?God's other creations are certainly far from perfection.How often does the child of a great individual achieve comparable greatness to the parent?

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 10:00AM #6
dio
Posts: 4,889

The trouble with Christianity is it spends too much time contemplating the mystery of Jesus Christ. Instead of mapping out the way, the narrow way Jesus was trying to teach people how to follow. Christianity should rather put up road signs like;  stop lights, green arrows, curve in the road, and slow children traffic signs. Concentrate more on how to walk that narrow path.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 10:05AM #7
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

If God is the Ground of Being, the unity that underlies all things, the One in which we live and move and have our being ("Know this is, and take it to heart, that the Eternal is God in the heavens above and on the earth below: there is nothing else"), then in a certain sense everyone is "fully god and fully human," the difference being one of the reorientation of perception, a difference of manifestation and acknowledgement.


That reorientation would be what is meant by "dying to the self and rising again in Christ," "being born again," "accepting Christ into your heart," etc.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 10:07AM #8
koolpoi
Posts: 6,442

Jun 15, 2012 -- 10:00AM, dio wrote:


The trouble with Christianity is it spends too much time contemplating the mystery of Jesus Christ. Instead of mapping out the way, the narrow way Jesus was trying to teach people how to follow. Christianity should rather put up road signs like;  stop lights, green arrows, curve in the road, and slow children traffic signs. Concentrate more on how to walk that narrow path.




Contemplating a mystery is a lot easier than loving others as yourself.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 10:08AM #9
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

Jun 15, 2012 -- 10:00AM, dio wrote:


The trouble with Christianity is it spends too much time contemplating the mystery of Jesus Christ. Instead of mapping out the way, the narrow way Jesus was trying to teach people how to follow. Christianity should rather put up road signs like;  stop lights, green arrows, curve in the road, and slow children traffic signs. Concentrate more on how to walk that narrow path.




Exactly. While I'm not sure it's limited just to Christianity, we did go through a period where the metaphors that were used to try to communicate the faith in terms that could be understood became reified and became objects of faith themselves. Idols, in other words.


These symbols should be signposts as you say, not the destination in themselves.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 11:35AM #10
Kwinters
Posts: 21,923

Jun 15, 2012 -- 9:02AM, Jiwe wrote:


Jun 15, 2012 -- 7:14AM, Kwinters wrote:


If we list the attributes of for what it means to be fully human and what it means to be fully god, it is perfectly clear that one being cannot be both simultaneously. Thus we can reject all of Christian claims about Jesus that rely upon this assumption as invalid, since not even a god can overcome a logical contradiction.

Further, blind faith is no answer to such a logical contradiction, merely an avoidance of confronting the outcome of an investigation. 




I wasn't aware that there was such an exhaustive and agreed upon list of attributes for being human or for being God. Do you mind presenting it here?


James




If you list any attribute of a human being and examine that concept against its equivalent attributed to a god, in Christian theology, they are opposite.


I don't need to provide an exhaustive list, since the existence of a single contradition is enough to render the entire premise invalid. But, by way of example:


Man is not omniscient.  Gods are said to be omniscient.  One cannot be, simultaneously, omniscient and not omniscient.

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 1 of 18  •  1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 18 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook