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Switch to Forum Live View Is it persecution, or Christian duty?
2 years ago  ::  Jun 14, 2012 - 10:46PM #11
Newtonian
Posts: 12,187

Svetlana - You didn't specify a belief for me to post a Scripture on.


Here is a list of our primary beliefs for you to choose from:


www.watchtower.org/e/jt/index.htm


Under the section what we believe, see the chart of our primary beliefs.


You hinted at these beliefs from that list;

BeliefScriptural Reason
Bible is God's Word and is truth 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; 2 Pet. 1:20, 21; John 17:17
Bible is more reliable than tradition Matt. 15:3; Col. 2:8
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 14, 2012 - 10:58PM #12
Oeste
Posts: 3,376

Jun 14, 2012 -- 10:41PM, Newtonian wrote:


Seriously, you are referencing our older out of date beliefs - when we came out of darkness (see our DVD of that title).   You have forgotten Jesus' parable of the wheat and weeds and thus forgot that at that time the wheat and weeds looked quite similar as we had not rejected all Babylonish doctrines that were in Christendom yet.   For a discussion of Jesus' parable, see:


www.watchtower.org/e/200702/article_03.h...


Now, if you want a religion that is static in beliefs, you can find one. 



"Babylonish doctrines"???


You are toooooo funny Newt.


Newt, the WT has always been in darkness. It's why they keep changing their beliefs....they can't seem to find the light. If they had the light, they wouldn't need to keep changing their beliefs, would they?


Since you state the WT prefers to blame "Christendom" rather than take responsibility for their own foolishness....


... can you tell us which of the "Babylonish" religions did the doctrine that the "ancient worthies" were going to be resurrected in 1925 come from?


Was it the Catholic, Methodist, or Lutheran religion? The Episcopalians perhaps?


Never argue with stupid people. They will drag
you down to their level and then beat you with
experience ~ Mark Twain

If you are neutral on situations of injustice
you have chosen the side of the oppressor ~
Desmond Tutu
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 6:31AM #13
Newtonian
Posts: 12,187

Oeste - You actually have a lack of knowledge of what Babylonish doctrines are?


Here is a link concerning one of them - see the additional links in this link:


www.watchtower.org/e/20020715/article_01...


While Jesus faithful followers do not get the timing of Jesus coming correct as foretold by Jesus for these last days (Matthew 24:44) even as the faithful slave got it wrong in the first century (Acts 1:6,7) - we early on rejected many Babylonish doctrines like the above God-dishonoring doctrine of Hell Fire.


This link will help you better understand how to obey Jesus' command in Revelation 18:4 to get out of Babylon the Great:


www.watchtower.org/e/kn37/article_01.htm

Moderated by nanalulu222 on Jun 15, 2012 - 10:33AM
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 8:51AM #14
Svetlana
Posts: 11,286

Jun 14, 2012 -- 10:46PM, Newtonian wrote:


Svetlana - You didn't specify a belief for me to post a Scripture on.


Yes, I did, and you know that as well as everyone else does.  How in the world do you think such ridiculous evasion makes your position look STRONGER??  Seriously.


To play along, here, for the fourth or fifth time, is the JW belief and practice for which I am asking scriptural backup:




So, then, if scripture addresses it all, what about the wasted blood in the body of the patient that refuses a transfusion and dies?  Which of the passages you quoted address that, and how do the WTS/GB interpret them?  If blood is so important, why does Jehovah demand the sacrificing of eleven pints in order to refrain from using one?  In what way does the saving of a life dishonor Jehovah?  You claim it's all in scripture, so where are these questions answered?


 


 (The quote function isn't working, of course.)  I don't like insulting your intelligence, but you are forcing a reduction to this absurd level by refusing to admit you are perfectly aware of what I'm asking for.  I will, therefore, repost the basic premise:  JWs believe that blood transfusions are to be refused at all costs, including the cosst of the life of the patient.  The only scriptural backup for that refusal presented to date are passages about not eating meat with blood in it, which has nothing to do with transfusions.  None of those passages insist that the refusal extend to the sacrifice of life, that one must refuse to the point of death, which is often the case with transfusions (do NOT try to evade with exceptions to that rule, they are NOT what we are talking about).  Where in scripture does Jehovah demand the sacrifice of one's life, or the life of one's child, to avoid eating meat with blood in it?  Because the loss of the life of the patient is a complete waste of the rest of the blood in his body, where in scripture does it say that the pint (as an example, of course, one pint given, and eleven more constitute the average 12 pints in the body of an average sized human) refused is worth MORE than the eleven wasted, since the eleven are sacrificed to spare the one?  This is very literally a life-and-death issue, so there MUST be scriptural support for such a sacrifice.  Where is that support?  The prohibition against eating blooded meat has nothing to do with it, and doesn't mention such an extreme, so on what do you base the requirement for the sacrifice of a life?



"No matter how big and bad you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone, you answer it."  ~ (common sense)

"Never place a period where God has placed a comma."  ~ Gracie Allen

"I care not for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it." ~ Abraham Lincoln

"I wonder sometimes if we ever give God a headache." ~ Dontay Hall, age 8
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 9:45AM #15
woodzz
Posts: 2,065

Jun 14, 2012 -- 10:41PM, Newtonian wrote:


Jun 14, 2012 -- 9:27PM, woodzz wrote:


Jun 14, 2012 -- 9:16PM, Newtonian wrote:


You all - as Present Simple noted, we invite critical examination of our beliefs on the basis of the Scriptures.


So far I have not seen anyone post a specific belief of ours nor any Scriptures concerning that belief.





Hold it right there.  You believe your leaders passed as the faithful slave in 1918, and as such they are the 'voice of God', his only channel of communication to mankind, appointed by Jesus over all his earthly 'belongings' (buildings, machinery, publications, people of the WT Org) yet you refuse to examine their beliefs of that time that Jesus would have been examining: most important of all the false teaching that he had already returned in 1874!


Woodzz




Hold what?Surprised


Seriously, you are referencing our older out of date beliefs - when we came out of darkness (see our DVD of that title).  



Hold your false statement that you haven't "seen anyone post a specific belief of ours nor any Scriptures concerning that belief." 


I've repeatedly posted about your false belief that Jesus returned in 1914 and found your group being the faithful and wise servant of Matthew 24:45.  I've asked you to examine your beliefs of that time, put them to the Berean test and to your own WT Org test of being the right sort of food, of high quality, only from God, and not based on human reasoning.  So far you haven't done it.


That your governing body is the faithful and discreet slave of Matthew 24:45 is about as specific a belief as you can get and it's the only one that matters because if they are indeed what they say they are everyone should be accepting a Bible study from you, but if they aren't what would be the reason anyone should listen to you?


Your version of Matthew 24:45 is that the Master returned and found his servant so much in the dark that he wasn't even aware of his return because he thought it had already happened some 40 year earlier, actually thought the Master was the devil, and continued in the dark for some 20 more years. You corrupt not only the scripture but also the belief that you're trying to make others believe, that Jesus found your leaders faithful and discreet in 1914.


Then you cry persecution when these false teachings are pointed out to you.  Don't you find it even a little bit hypocritical of you to do that when the WT Org tells you it isn't persecution, it's a Christian's duty to expose false religion?


Woodzz

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 9:47AM #16
Oeste
Posts: 3,376

Jun 15, 2012 -- 6:31AM, Newtonian wrote:


Oeste - You actually have a lack of knowledge of what Babylonish doctrines are?




Absolutely! When it comes to Babylonish doctrines, I think you're the expert here.


That's why I asked for your help Newt.


The links you gave me didn't tell me which religion held the Babylonish doctrine that the ancient worthies would be resurrected in 1925.


I mean, the Watchtower got it from "Christendom", didn't it? I'm sure they didn't come up with this nonsense all by themselves. Otherwise they would have taken responsibility for it, and I don't find the faithful remnant taking responsibility for Babylonish doctrines. Believe me, I've searched through quite a bit of their publications.


So I need your help Newt. Where did they get this devilish doctrine from?


Your links don't tell me, and I'm hoping you can help us all cut through all the red tape. Smile

Moderated by nanalulu222 on Jun 15, 2012 - 10:34AM
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag
you down to their level and then beat you with
experience ~ Mark Twain

If you are neutral on situations of injustice
you have chosen the side of the oppressor ~
Desmond Tutu
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 9:51AM #17
woodzz
Posts: 2,065

Jun 14, 2012 -- 10:58PM, Oeste wrote:


Jun 14, 2012 -- 10:41PM, Newtonian wrote:


Seriously, you are referencing our older out of date beliefs - when we came out of darkness (see our DVD of that title).   You have forgotten Jesus' parable of the wheat and weeds and thus forgot that at that time the wheat and weeds looked quite similar as we had not rejected all Babylonish doctrines that were in Christendom yet.   For a discussion of Jesus' parable, see:


www.watchtower.org/e/200702/article_03.h...


Now, if you want a religion that is static in beliefs, you can find one. 



"Babylonish doctrines"???


You are toooooo funny Newt.


Newt, the WT has always been in darkness. It's why they keep changing their beliefs....they can't seem to find the light. If they had the light, they wouldn't need to keep changing their beliefs, would they?


Since you state the WT prefers to blame "Christendom" rather than take responsibility for their own foolishness....


... can you tell us which of the "Babylonish" religions did the doctrine that the "ancient worthies" were going to be resurrected in 1925 come from?


Was it the Catholic, Methodist, or Lutheran religion? The Episcopalians perhaps?






What a good point, Oeste. 


 


Woodzz

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 15, 2012 - 10:11AM #18
Oeste
Posts: 3,376

Jun 15, 2012 -- 9:51AM, woodzz wrote:


What a good point, Oeste. 


 



As are yours Woodz. You have a far keener insight than I as to what they believed as "truth" back then and what they consider "truth" now. 


Hopefully we can get some answers from Newt or the other Witnesses on this site.

Never argue with stupid people. They will drag
you down to their level and then beat you with
experience ~ Mark Twain

If you are neutral on situations of injustice
you have chosen the side of the oppressor ~
Desmond Tutu
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