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2 years ago  ::  Jun 16, 2012 - 8:27PM #151
jonny42
Posts: 6,646

Jun 16, 2012 -- 7:27PM, G.flower wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 2:06PM, jonny42 wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 8:59AM, G.flower wrote:


How many Christians do that? How many do this “When you give a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return and you be repaid. But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just."


The answer is not many.




How do you know?   


How do you know that "not many" Christians are providing for others?  


If Christians don't wash people's feet, does that mean they aren't following Jesus' commands?  What if they practice the principle, and serve people in other ways?  Does that count?




I'm not certain that it will count with Jesus. 





Ok.   I disagree.  But feel free to follow Jesus as your Lord and Savior as you think he is teaching you.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 16, 2012 - 8:47PM #152
G.flower
Posts: 3,194

Jun 16, 2012 -- 8:27PM, jonny42 wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 7:27PM, G.flower wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 2:06PM, jonny42 wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 8:59AM, G.flower wrote:


How many Christians do that? How many do this “When you give a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return and you be repaid. But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just."


The answer is not many.




How do you know?   


How do you know that "not many" Christians are providing for others?  


If Christians don't wash people's feet, does that mean they aren't following Jesus' commands?  What if they practice the principle, and serve people in other ways?  Does that count?




I'm not certain that it will count with Jesus. 





Ok.   I disagree.  But feel free to follow Jesus as your Lord and Savior as you think he is teaching you.




It is fine with me if you disagree with your god. He's the one you have to face, I'm just a poster on an internet board.


Jesus isn't my god. I'm not Christian. I just wonder why Christians don't do as they are told to do by their god.

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 16, 2012 - 8:53PM #153
G.flower
Posts: 3,194

Jun 16, 2012 -- 8:23PM, jonny42 wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 7:14PM, G.flower wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 1:48PM, jonny42 wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 8:59AM, G.flower wrote:



What you have said is interesting. I find not many Christians do pay attention to what Jesus was supposed to say. They pay a lot more attention to what Paul says or anyone else except Jesus. 





"I find that non-Christians eat a lot of potato chips, and not many healthy foods.  Um, just because I want to think so and I like saying that they do."


"My 'findings' aren't based on any actual research, or even a casual observation.  It's just my bias to say things that are negative about them.   They may very well eat healthy foods, but how would I ever know?  I'd have to go around asking them what they eat, but I don't want to do that.  It might prove my theory wrong, and ultimately I don't care if it's true or not.  I just want to say negative things about a large group of people."




Apparently you missed the part where I listed the things Jesus said and that I don't know anyone who has actually given away everything that they own to follow Jesus. Have you? I'm sure some do, some nuns and priests, I just don't know of any.


I don't know anyone who, instead of inviting their friends and family to dinner, goes out and collects poor people who are strangers to invite into their homes. Do you? Maybe some do that too, but I don't know any.


I would also like to point out the end of slavery, womens right to vote, the end of segregation all of which I consider treating others as you would like to be treated, were opposed by Christians for hundreds of years. Right now the fight over gay rights are not (according to the polls) very popular with Christians.


Christians are also on the side of giving those groups the same rights they enjoyed. Not all Christians are cut from the same cloth and for them I am very glad. Change is happening.





1) Jesus' command to sell everything was given specifically as a test to the one man.  The principle, to make following him more important than anything else, is applicable to all.  


2) The principle behind inviting the poor to dinner… is to not just look after one's own immediate group of friends and family.  It may include feeding people in one's own home, but I don't think it is limited to that.  I think it extends to groups, like churches or social organizations.   I know of many individuals and churches that feed the down-and-out.


3) Christians follow Jesus' teaching on who should be married, and he specified one man and one woman.   




1. That's what you would like to think. What if the first thing Jesus asks you is "Why didn't you do what I said to do?"


2. Jesus ate with everyone despite the cleanliness laws. In that he was a social activist promoting social change. He was all about inclusion. Feeding someone in a rescue mission is all about exclusion. They are fed but not included.


3. Ah ha! Here you want to go by EXACTLY what Jesus said about one person - Moses, and divorce correct? It is interesting that here (when Jesus says or seems to say what you want) you think it best to stick to what he said but for the other things you don't want to do? Not so much. :)

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 16, 2012 - 9:06PM #154
Iwantamotto
Posts: 7,804

jonny42:  1) Jesus' command to sell everything was given specifically as a test to the one man.  The principle, to make following him more important than anything else, is applicable to all.


While I'm inclined to see things as G.flower does, I think you have a valid point as well.  There is a forest of those moral trees, after all.


3) Christians follow Jesus' teaching on who should be married, and he specified one man and one woman.


... and then suddenly he can't see the forest for the trees again.  So, in review, we shouldn't nitpick Jesus' statements about charity because there are bigger principles involved, but talk of marriage and BAM -- He mentioned it in passing, didn't practice it at all Himself, actively encouraged the leaving of families -- yup, that's a keeper of a sacred rule, right there.

Knock and the door shall open.  It's not my fault if you don't like the decor.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 16, 2012 - 9:09PM #155
G.flower
Posts: 3,194

Jun 16, 2012 -- 9:06PM, Iwantamotto wrote:


jonny42:  1) Jesus' command to sell everything was given specifically as a test to the one man.  The principle, to make following him more important than anything else, is applicable to all.


While I'm inclined to see things as G.flower does, I think you have a valid point as well.  There is a forest of those moral trees, after all.


3) Christians follow Jesus' teaching on who should be married, and he specified one man and one woman.


... and then suddenly he can't see the forest for the trees again.  So, in review, we shouldn't nitpick Jesus' statements about charity because there are bigger principles involved, but talk of marriage and BAM -- He mentioned it in passing, didn't practice it at all Himself, actively encouraged the leaving of families -- yup, that's a keeper of a sacred rule, right there.




LOL!

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 16, 2012 - 9:10PM #156
jonny42
Posts: 6,646

Jun 16, 2012 -- 8:47PM, G.flower wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 8:27PM, jonny42 wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 7:27PM, G.flower wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 2:06PM, jonny42 wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 8:59AM, G.flower wrote:


How many Christians do that? How many do this “When you give a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return and you be repaid. But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just."


The answer is not many.




How do you know?   


How do you know that "not many" Christians are providing for others?  


If Christians don't wash people's feet, does that mean they aren't following Jesus' commands?  What if they practice the principle, and serve people in other ways?  Does that count?




I'm not certain that it will count with Jesus. 





Ok.   I disagree.  But feel free to follow Jesus as your Lord and Savior as you think he is teaching you.




It is fine with me if you disagree with your god. He's the one you have to face, I'm just a poster on an internet board.


Jesus isn't my god. I'm not Christian. I just wonder why Christians don't do as they are told to do by their god.




I disagree with your interpretation of Jesus' words.  As does the rest of Christendom.


But again, feel free to follow Jesus' teachings as you understand them.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 16, 2012 - 9:19PM #157
jonny42
Posts: 6,646

Jun 16, 2012 -- 8:53PM, G.flower wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 8:23PM, jonny42 wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 7:14PM, G.flower wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 1:48PM, jonny42 wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 8:59AM, G.flower wrote:



What you have said is interesting. I find not many Christians do pay attention to what Jesus was supposed to say. They pay a lot more attention to what Paul says or anyone else except Jesus. 





"I find that non-Christians eat a lot of potato chips, and not many healthy foods.  Um, just because I want to think so and I like saying that they do."


"My 'findings' aren't based on any actual research, or even a casual observation.  It's just my bias to say things that are negative about them.   They may very well eat healthy foods, but how would I ever know?  I'd have to go around asking them what they eat, but I don't want to do that.  It might prove my theory wrong, and ultimately I don't care if it's true or not.  I just want to say negative things about a large group of people."




Apparently you missed the part where I listed the things Jesus said and that I don't know anyone who has actually given away everything that they own to follow Jesus. Have you? I'm sure some do, some nuns and priests, I just don't know of any.


I don't know anyone who, instead of inviting their friends and family to dinner, goes out and collects poor people who are strangers to invite into their homes. Do you? Maybe some do that too, but I don't know any.


I would also like to point out the end of slavery, womens right to vote, the end of segregation all of which I consider treating others as you would like to be treated, were opposed by Christians for hundreds of years. Right now the fight over gay rights are not (according to the polls) very popular with Christians.


Christians are also on the side of giving those groups the same rights they enjoyed. Not all Christians are cut from the same cloth and for them I am very glad. Change is happening.





1) Jesus' command to sell everything was given specifically as a test to the one man.  The principle, to make following him more important than anything else, is applicable to all.  


2) The principle behind inviting the poor to dinner… is to not just look after one's own immediate group of friends and family.  It may include feeding people in one's own home, but I don't think it is limited to that.  I think it extends to groups, like churches or social organizations.   I know of many individuals and churches that feed the down-and-out.


3) Christians follow Jesus' teaching on who should be married, and he specified one man and one woman.   




1. That's what you would like to think. What if the first thing Jesus asks you is "Why didn't you do what I said to do?"


2. Jesus ate with everyone despite the cleanliness laws. In that he was a social activist promoting social change. He was all about inclusion. Feeding someone in a rescue mission is all about exclusion. They are fed but not included.


3. Ah ha! Here you want to go by EXACTLY what Jesus said about one person - Moses, and divorce correct? It is interesting that here (when Jesus says or seems to say what you want) you think it best to stick to what he said but for the other things you don't want to do? Not so much. :)




1.  I've sinned.  But rejecting your interpretation of Jesus' commands is not one of them.


2. ?


3.  If Jesus didn't mean that marriage was between one man and one woman, what did he mean? Did he mean to include any form of relationship, but just didn't say it?

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 16, 2012 - 9:19PM #158
G.flower
Posts: 3,194

Jun 16, 2012 -- 9:10PM, jonny42 wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 8:47PM, G.flower wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 8:27PM, jonny42 wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 7:27PM, G.flower wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 2:06PM, jonny42 wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 8:59AM, G.flower wrote:


How many Christians do that? How many do this “When you give a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return and you be repaid. But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just."


The answer is not many.




How do you know?   


How do you know that "not many" Christians are providing for others?  


If Christians don't wash people's feet, does that mean they aren't following Jesus' commands?  What if they practice the principle, and serve people in other ways?  Does that count?




I'm not certain that it will count with Jesus. 





Ok.   I disagree.  But feel free to follow Jesus as your Lord and Savior as you think he is teaching you.




It is fine with me if you disagree with your god. He's the one you have to face, I'm just a poster on an internet board.


Jesus isn't my god. I'm not Christian. I just wonder why Christians don't do as they are told to do by their god.




I disagree with your interpretation of Jesus' words.  As does the rest of Christendom.


But again, feel free to follow Jesus' teachings as you understand them.




It really doesn't matter what the rest (remember how you were so upset that I talked about all Christians and now you are doing it?) think, it only matters what your god(s) think. All Christians can agree with you, but if Jesus/Yahweh disagree, well, then they get to have the final say.


I have a good relationship with Yahweh. :)

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 16, 2012 - 9:21PM #159
G.flower
Posts: 3,194

Jun 16, 2012 -- 9:19PM, jonny42 wrote:


1. That's what you would like to think. What if the first thing Jesus asks you is "Why didn't you do what I said to do?"


2. Jesus ate with everyone despite the cleanliness laws. In that he was a social activist promoting social change. He was all about inclusion. Feeding someone in a rescue mission is all about exclusion. They are fed but not included.


3. Ah ha! Here you want to go by EXACTLY what Jesus said about one person - Moses, and divorce correct? It is interesting that here (when Jesus says or seems to say what you want) you think it best to stick to what he said but for the other things you don't want to do? Not so much. :)




1.  I've sinned.  But rejecting your interpretation of Jesus' commands is not one of them.


2. ?


3.  If Jesus didn't mean that marriage was between one man and one woman, what did he mean? Did he mean to include any form of relationship, but just didn't say it?




1. Dude you are on your own there.


2. ??


3. I think he was against divorce. That's okay by me.

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 16, 2012 - 9:23PM #160
jonny42
Posts: 6,646

Jun 16, 2012 -- 9:19PM, G.flower wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 9:10PM, jonny42 wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 8:47PM, G.flower wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 8:27PM, jonny42 wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 7:27PM, G.flower wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 2:06PM, jonny42 wrote:


Jun 16, 2012 -- 8:59AM, G.flower wrote:


How many Christians do that? How many do this “When you give a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return and you be repaid. But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just."


The answer is not many.




How do you know?   


How do you know that "not many" Christians are providing for others?  


If Christians don't wash people's feet, does that mean they aren't following Jesus' commands?  What if they practice the principle, and serve people in other ways?  Does that count?




I'm not certain that it will count with Jesus. 





Ok.   I disagree.  But feel free to follow Jesus as your Lord and Savior as you think he is teaching you.




It is fine with me if you disagree with your god. He's the one you have to face, I'm just a poster on an internet board.


Jesus isn't my god. I'm not Christian. I just wonder why Christians don't do as they are told to do by their god.




I disagree with your interpretation of Jesus' words.  As does the rest of Christendom.


But again, feel free to follow Jesus' teachings as you understand them.




It really doesn't matter what the rest (remember how you were so upset that I talked about all Christians and now you are doing it?) think, it only matters what your god(s) think. All Christians can agree with you, but if Jesus/Yahweh disagree, well, then they get to have the final say.


I have a good relationship with Yahweh. :)




I've never heard of anyone in Christendom interpret Jesus' command to mean we all need to sell all of our possessions and give the money.   There may be exceptions, but I doubt it.   

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