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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 8:03AM #1
Daldianus
Posts: 32,442

More and more clergy people coming out as atheists:


HOUSTON - More than 200 church leaders across the country now say they no longer believe in God, including a Houston-area pastor who was one of the first to publicly announce his decision.

Aus was a long-time Lutheran pastor at churches in the Houston area, but now he said he no longer believes in the message he had been preaching for almost 20 years. Aus declined Local 2's request for an interview. He said his statements on MSNBC explained his loss of faith. 


(source)


But I guess those people never really had this famous 'personal relationship with Jesus' in the first place, right? Or have they now converted to the Devil?
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 8:34AM #2
Eliascomes
Posts: 976

Jun 12, 2012 -- 8:03AM, Daldianus wrote:


More and more clergy people coming out as atheists:


HOUSTON - More than 200 church leaders across the country now say they no longer believe in God, including a Houston-area pastor who was one of the first to publicly announce his decision.

Aus was a long-time Lutheran pastor at churches in the Houston area, but now he said he no longer believes in the message he had been preaching for almost 20 years. Aus declined Local 2's request for an interview. He said his statements on MSNBC explained his loss of faith. 


(source)


But I guess those people never really had this famous 'personal relationship with Jesus' in the first place, right? Or have they now converted to the Devil?



 It says in the scriptures to watchout for the yeast of the Pharisee, especially (Evolutionist, and all the disciples of science) on this Bnet site. Once their yeast had penetrated in your thoughts, it'll spread out to others. 

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 8:35AM #3
Daldianus
Posts: 32,442

Jun 12, 2012 -- 8:34AM, Eliascomes wrote:

It says in the scriptures to watchout for the yeast of the Pharisee, especially (Evolutionist, and all the disciples of science) on this Bnet site. Once their yeast had penetrated in your thoughts, it'll spread out to others. 



So these pastors, all these years or decades, were 'Pharisees'? They NEVER had that 'personal relationship with Jesus' and were faking it from the start? Is that what you're trying to say?

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 8:46AM #4
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

that branch of Lutheran does not believe in personal relationship with Jesus Christ

Non Quis, Sed Quid
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 8:48AM #5
Eliascomes
Posts: 976

Jun 12, 2012 -- 8:35AM, Daldianus wrote:


Jun 12, 2012 -- 8:34AM, Eliascomes wrote:

It says in the scriptures to watchout for the yeast of the Pharisee, especially (Evolutionist, and all the disciples of science) on this Bnet site. Once their yeast had penetrated in your thoughts, it'll spread out to others. 



So these pastors, all these years or decades, were 'Pharisees'? They NEVER had that 'personal relationship with Jesus' and were faking it from the start? Is that what you're trying to say?




 No,they were just weak from the start, but they didn't practice what God had taught; And so someone came along and pumped their heads full of knowledge of this world (science) and showing them the great wonders that they can perform with this knowledge. Like juggling cats with rats.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 8:49AM #6
Daldianus
Posts: 32,442

Jun 12, 2012 -- 8:46AM, davelaw40 wrote:


that branch of Lutheran does not believe in personal relationship with Jesus Christ




It's not just Lutherans, check this out.


Or this: Preachers who are not believers.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 8:52AM #7
Daldianus
Posts: 32,442

Jun 12, 2012 -- 8:48AM, Eliascomes wrote:

No,they were just weak from the start, but they didn't practice what God had taught; And so someone came along and pumped their heads full of knowledge of this world (science) and showing them the great wonders that they can perform with this knowledge. Like juggling cats with rats.



They were just 'weak' from the start? What do you mean? Please explain.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 8:54AM #8
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

Are clergy supposed to be different from any other profession?


If an architect gets discouraged by the economy and regrets ever having decided to become an architect and swiches careers, does that invalidate architecture as a profession?


As for the "personal relationship with Jesus," no one with the exception of God is capable of reading into what goes on in any individual's soul. Maybe this person never had a true vocation to the clergy in the first place, maybe he lost his faith, maybe any number of things.


The "personal relationship with Jesus" isn't easy. Some people do get the special ecstatic beatific experience of direct personal communion with Christ; for most of us, though, it's based pretty much entirely on faith and hope. Some people's faith and capacity for hope are stronger than others.


It's a sad situation, but a fact of life. I hope this pastor finds the peace he's looking for.


Oh, and accepting the scientific reality of evolution does not in any way negate faith in God through Christ.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 8:57AM #9
Daldianus
Posts: 32,442

Jun 12, 2012 -- 8:54AM, nieciedo wrote:


Are clergy supposed to be different from any other profession?


If an architect gets discouraged by the economy and regrets ever having decided to become an architect and swiches careers, does that invalidate architecture as a profession?


As for the "personal relationship with Jesus," no one with the exception of God is capable of reading into what goes on in any individual's soul. Maybe this person never had a true vocation to the clergy in the first place, maybe he lost his faith, maybe any number of things.



So he just mistakenly thought he was called? Silly him then! And staying in it for years and decades.


The "personal relationship with Jesus" isn't easy. Some people do get the special ecstatic beatific experience of direct personal communion with Christ; for most of us, though, it's based pretty much entirely on faith and hope. Some people's faith and capacity for hope are stronger than others.



So most Christians don't have this 'personal relationship with Jesus'? Why not? Is he picky? why would he only chose a few?


Oh, and accepting the scientific reality of evolution does not in any way negate faith in God through Christ.



It makes it much more difficult though.




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“After your death you will be what you were before your birth.” - Arthur Schopenhauer
"Eternity is very long, especially towards the end." - Woody Allen
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 9:02AM #10
nieciedo
Posts: 5,617

Jun 12, 2012 -- 8:57AM, Daldianus wrote:


So he just mistakenly thought he was called? Silly him then! And staying in it for years and decades.




Maybe. I'm not him, I'm not God, so I can't say. I do know that in my sophomore year of college, I thought for sure I was called to be a priest. I was 100% certain. It didn't work out, and I was devastated. For a time. Sometimes what we want or think we want gets confused with what God wants for us.


So most Christians don't have this 'personal relationship with Jesus'? Why not? Is he picky? why would he only chose a few?



I said most Christians don't get a magical mystical experience of beatific and ecstatic evidence of divine consolation. I made no statements about whom God chooses or why.


Oh, and accepting the scientific reality of evolution does not in any way negate faith in God through Christ.



It makes it much more difficult though.



Not necessarily, and not for me.





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