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Switch to Forum Live View Scientist Solves "The Mystery of the Universe": It Came From Nothing
2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 10:29PM #101
Adelphe
Posts: 28,707

Jun 12, 2012 -- 10:27PM, Kwinters wrote:


Here I'll contribute something about Jesus!


'Forget Jesus, the stars died so that you could be here today.' Lawrence Krauss


(from the link that some people can't be bothered to watch)






Why don't you elaborate (a bit) for the rest of us who can find our own youtubes and such and watch those instead of being here?

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 10:30PM #102
Kwinters
Posts: 21,922

Just to state again that when scientists use the term nothing they do not consider it in the way some person off the street would think of nothing.


In fact nothing, when you learn about it, contains a lot of activity and potentiality.


Yet more evidence that there is no supernatural being who created the universe.

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 10:31PM #103
Adelphe
Posts: 28,707

Jun 12, 2012 -- 10:29PM, Kartari wrote:


Adelphe,


Jun 12, 2012 -- 10:03PM, Adelphe wrote:


Jun 12, 2012 -- 10:00PM, Blü wrote:

I haven't read Krauss' book but I've heard a couple of discussions on the radio while driving.


One of them gave me the impression that Krauss's "nothing" from which "something" came isn't a true "nothing", merely the vacuum.


If that's roughly correct then Krauss isn't advancing the riddle at all. The vacuum's energetic.  And everything, at last, is energy.


So we're where we were before.


How come there's energy?


Because there is.



I like that argument.


Can we use it for God?



Ask yourself that question after reading my post above directed at Ed. :)




Ah, substance.


Thanks, Kart. 


I will.


:-)

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 10:32PM #104
Justme333
Posts: 1,101

I was taught somewhere that there should be no disagreement between creationism and the big-bang theory because they can co-exist.  If not, it is either because of faulty science or faulty theology.  Do not know that much about the science part, but I can tackle the theology part. My Church teaches that scripture does not prove how the heavens were made, but instead shows how to go to heaven. So I am not seeing a conflict here.



Justme

"Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there."  Will Rogers

"Give to those who ask, and don't turn away from those who want to borrow."  Matthew 5:42

"Charity is no substitute for justice withheld."         St. Augustine

"Your love for God is only as great as the love you have for the person you love least."  Dorothy Day

"If you want peace, work for justice." Pope Paul VI
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 10:35PM #105
Kwinters
Posts: 21,922

Jun 12, 2012 -- 10:29PM, Adelphe wrote:


Jun 12, 2012 -- 10:27PM, Kwinters wrote:


Here I'll contribute something about Jesus!


'Forget Jesus, the stars died so that you could be here today.' Lawrence Krauss


(from the link that some people can't be bothered to watch)






Why don't you elaborate (a bit) for the rest of us who can find our own youtubes and such and watch those instead of being here?




Because it is over an hour long, is given by a particle physicist and it is far better to hear it from the person who has a PhD in this than me.


If your contention is that the universe came from nothing and you're citing a particle physicist then don't you think that the onus is on you to accurately understand and rely what is meant by 'nothing' on the part of the physicist you cite?


What is the point of citing a scientist and then going on to have a conversation with a bunch of people who have a mistaken view of what scientists mean when they use the term nothing and wrongly thing you are citing evidence for your particular view of god when, in fact, everything it says refutes that view completely?

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 10:37PM #106
Kwinters
Posts: 21,922

SOMETHING FROM NOTHING ? [OFFICIAL] Richard Dawkins & Lawrence Krauss [HD]



 

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 10:40PM #107
Kwinters
Posts: 21,922

Jun 12, 2012 -- 10:28PM, Adelphe wrote:


Jun 12, 2012 -- 10:24PM, Kwinters wrote:


No there is a lot of people saying things that make no sense if you understand science.


And the links are intended to provide educational material for people who are interested in learning about things instead of making up stuff that makes no sense.




Are you saying God "makes no sense"?




Science makes sense. I am told over and over by believers that god cannot be understood.


Yet they are often quite sure they are doing/believing/saying exactly what he wants. And in the aggregate they disagree on every point.

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 10:41PM #108
Adelphe
Posts: 28,707

Jun 12, 2012 -- 10:35PM, Kwinters wrote:


Because it is over an hour long, is given by a particle physicist and it is far better to hear it from the person who has a PhD in this than me.



If you watched it and understood it, it should be a simple matter to summarize it.



If your contention is that the universe came from nothing and you're citing a particle physicist then don't you think that the onus is on you to accurately understand and rely what is meant by 'nothing' on the part of the physicist you cite?



That is quite obviously not any Christian's contention here.  A Christian believes the universe came from nothing? 



What is the point of citing a scientist and then going on to have a conversation with a bunch of people who have a mistaken view of what scientists mean when they use the term nothing and wrongly thing you are citing evidence for your particular view of god when, in fact, everything it says refutes that view completely?




I think you missed the point entirely.  I'm not aware of any Christian here thinking the OP is "evidence for your particular view of god."


Btw, even if so, please elaborate as to why "everything it says refutes that view completely."


Pretty strong statement.

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 10:43PM #109
Adelphe
Posts: 28,707

Jun 12, 2012 -- 10:40PM, Kwinters wrote:


Science makes sense. I am told over and over by believers that god cannot be understood.



Which believers?

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2012 - 10:45PM #110
Adelphe
Posts: 28,707

Jun 12, 2012 -- 10:32PM, Justme333 wrote:


I was taught somewhere that there should be no disagreement between creationism and the big-bang theory because they can co-exist.  If not, it is either because of faulty science or faulty theology.  Do not know that much about the science part, but I can tackle the theology part. My Church teaches that scripture does not prove how the heavens were made, but instead shows how to go to heaven. So I am not seeing a conflict here.



Justme




Indeed--in fact, the Big Bang theory was developed by a Christian.



ETA:  Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître ( lemaitre.ogg 17 July 1894 – 20 June 1966) was a Belgian priest, astronomer and professor of physics at the Catholic University of Leuven.


(wiki--more)

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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