Jun 13, 2012 -- 11:10AM, chanceuse wrote:

Hi Shusha!

You write:

In the Jewish point of view, the time of the coming of the mashiach is influenced or determined by the conduct of mankind.  The prophecies, and the (divinely inspired) commentaries, describe the conditions of his coming.

At this rate, it may seem that it will never happen...

Can I ask if you see many signs that we are going in the right direction?  

I'm not Shusha, either - but there aren't 'signs' in the sense that the Christians talk about re:  the Second Coming.  

I think most Jews are like me in outlook:  we focus on the here & now, trying to do the work of repairing creation so that it will be ready for Moschiach ben Dovid.   We are instructed in Talmud "If you are planting a tree and someone comes running to tell you the Messiah has arrived - finish planting the tree before you run to greet the Messiah!"

Hi ffb!

You write:

as a thumbnail response, you should make the following distinction: the talmud is made up of 2 basic parts, the mishna (and to a lesser degree, the braita and tosefta) and then the gemara. The mishna is the oral law handed to Moses at sinai, and transmitted orally by the sages. It includes explanation and legal application, plus textual explication. The gemara is the record of rabbinic argument over the specific meaning of the mishnaic statements, supported by other mishna texts, exegetical rules or other biblical texts.

Do I understand you correctly if I think you are trying to tell me that the mishna is God's word just as much as the Tanakh?

Hello again Leah!

You add:

there aren't 'signs' in the sense that the Christians talk about re:  the Second Coming.

The signs I was referring to is that society (humanity) is doing better and better (thus making it compatible for the messiah to come), not signs written in the Scriptures.

I also find this interesting:

We are instructed in Talmud "If you are planting a tree and someone comes running to tell you the Messiah has arrived - finish planting the tree before you run to greet the Messiah!"

Chanceuse, I'm not Shusha but if you don't mind I'll toss in my 2cents.....

I dunno 'bout anyone else, but I've never thought of it in terms of 'not having done enough' - I think that's a kind of perspective that is NOT encouraged in Judaism.

What your post made me think of was this quote: "You are not required to complete the task, but neither are you free to desist from it"

The full quote in context is:

Rabbi Tarfon said: The day is short, the task is great, the laborers are lazy, the wage is abundant and the master is urgent.  He used to say: It is not incumbent upon you to finish the task. Yet, you are not free to desist from it. If you have studied much in the Torah much reward will be given you, for faithful is your employer who shall pay you the reward of your labor. And know that the reward for the righteous shall be in the time to come.

Pirkei Avot, ch2, v20/21   www.myjewishlearning.com/texts/Rabbinics...

To say that the Jewish People is 'waiting' for the MbD is really a very poor way to put it.  We eagerly anticipate his arrival - but we are not 'waiting' by sitting around nudjing(pestering) the Almighty to "Send him, already!"  

What we are doing is 'tikkun olam' - repairing the brokenness of Creation - and trying to get everything in readiness so that MbD can arrive.  One of the 'requirements' is that all Israel (= the Jewish People) celebrate the Sabbath two Sabbaths in a row - and that of course wouldn't mean 'doing the rituals', but 'doing with true dedication & focus' (=kavanah).