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Switch to Forum Live View Will the TRUE CHURCH stand up?
3 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2012 - 4:38PM #1
miknik5
Posts: 7,684

I am so confused by all these posts with regards to "catholicism", "religion", and "christianity"...or at least this "new idea of christianity".

Please explain.

Who directs THE BODY anyway?
Men...or GOD?
And if those who have been called know they have been called according to HIS PURPOSE can they not stand up and do what they are called to? 


What is going on out there?
Have men lost sight of who they are in submission and subjection to?
Or, has everyone "progressed above THE HEAD"?

If HE is THE HEAD of HIS OWN BODY, can HE not direct the members of HIS BODY?


We were called according to HIS PURPOSE for the building up of HIS BODY...not our own!

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2012 - 5:34PM #2
WaveringCC
Posts: 5,140

Jun 9, 2012 -- 4:38PM, miknik5 wrote:


I am so confused by all these posts with regards to "catholicism", "religion", and "christianity"...or at least this "new idea of christianity".

Please explain.

Who directs THE BODY anyway?
Men...or GOD?
And if those who have been called know they have been called according to HIS PURPOSE can they not stand up and do what they are called to? 


What is going on out there?
Have men lost sight of who they are in submission and subjection to?
Or, has everyone "progressed above THE HEAD"?

If HE is THE HEAD of HIS OWN BODY, can HE not direct the members of HIS BODY?


We were called according to HIS PURPOSE for the building up of HIS BODY...not our own!




I'm not quite sure what you are really asking.  Maybe you could clarify? 

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2012 - 6:14PM #3
Buggsy
Posts: 4,731

miknik5


I think people are seeking answers to basic questions - what's the meaning of life, does God exist, who was Jesus, Why is the Pope the 'Vicar' (i.e. substitute) for Christ.  There's more information out there now than there was centures ago.  The rosetta stone opened up Egyptology as a science and understanding ancient Egypt and that's only in the last 200 years.  Archeaology as a science is relatively recent.  All these things raise questions about the past, the bible and what it means to people.


The RCC no longer has troops to enforce it's rule although it has plenty of violence in the toolbox - excommunication, removal from office, witholding communion for specific people and groups.  Given the growth of democracy since the French and American revolutions people are free to express their opinions, search the facts and reject the unbelieveable.


This isn't about offending THE BODY but respecting individualty and the search for truth - even when it lands someone squarely in irrational beliefs or superstition.  And this isn't just about the bible but also space, the oceans, the movement of planets and how ancient myth speaks to that . .  etc


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3 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2012 - 9:15PM #4
miknik5
Posts: 7,684

Jun 9, 2012 -- 5:34PM, WaveringCC wrote:

Jun 9, 2012 -- 4:38PM, miknik5 wrote:


I am so confused by all these posts with regards to "catholicism", "religion", and "christianity"...or at least this "new idea of christianity".

Please explain.

Who directs THE BODY anyway?
Men...or GOD?
And if those who have been called know they have been called according to HIS PURPOSE can they not stand up and do what they are called to? 


What is going on out there?
Have men lost sight of who they are in submission and subjection to?
Or, has everyone "progressed above THE HEAD"?

If HE is THE HEAD of HIS OWN BODY, can HE not direct the members of HIS BODY?


We were called according to HIS PURPOSE for the building up of HIS BODY...not our own!




I'm not quite sure what you are really asking.  Maybe you could clarify? 


The HOLY SPIRIT is still at work today.


That is what I mean.

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2012 - 11:18PM #5
WaveringCC
Posts: 5,140

Jun 9, 2012 -- 9:15PM, miknik5 wrote:

Jun 9, 2012 -- 5:34PM, WaveringCC wrote:


Jun 9, 2012 -- 4:38PM, miknik5 wrote:


I am so confused by all these posts with regards to "catholicism", "religion", and "christianity"...or at least this "new idea of christianity".

Please explain.

Who directs THE BODY anyway?
Men...or GOD?
And if those who have been called know they have been called according to HIS PURPOSE can they not stand up and do what they are called to? 


What is going on out there?
Have men lost sight of who they are in submission and subjection to?
Or, has everyone "progressed above THE HEAD"?

If HE is THE HEAD of HIS OWN BODY, can HE not direct the members of HIS BODY?


We were called according to HIS PURPOSE for the building up of HIS BODY...not our own!




I'm not quite sure what you are really asking.  Maybe you could clarify? 




The HOLY SPIRIT is still at work today.


That is what I mean.




OK, but your OP says that you are confused. And then you asked a series of questions. So, what are you confused about?  Why the questions? What are you hoping to learn?

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 10, 2012 - 4:40AM #6
adamcro-magnon
Posts: 1,146

I suppose there is a distinction between the 'ideologist' and the 'ideologue'.  The former studies ideologies, belief systems - and does so objectively (hopefully?) without necessarily highlighting one as superior to any other.  In fact the ethic of cognition which drives such enquiries favours no one particular belief system.  Unfortunately for some, if Ernest Gellner is correct, such a method of enquiry often undermines them all and queries sans end claims which various belief systems make concerning the meaning of life for it shows a knowledge beyond culture and beyond morality, a method of knowing which does not always sit well with the way of thinking so much espoused by the ideologue, who wants to 'live' the faith rather than interrogate it.  The ideologue in inside the tent pissiing out whereas with the ideologist it is the other way round.  Urine and you're out?


The latter therefore champions his/her own particular belief system, the most abstruse example perhaps being the dedicated theologian who coughs up armies and cohorts in a single inspired breath and persuades this way and that in an endless consecrated effort of ratiocination.  Such a person has already bought into the system of belief and finds it strange and confusing when claims which the belief system makes are queried and questioned by the ideologist.


Bnet, certainly where ‘Discuss Catholicism’ is concerned, houses both sorts yet gives ('hopefully' again) sanctuary to none.  I speak only in terms of ideal types, of rational fundamentalism v religious fundamentalism.  Such is the age we live in - for good and for ill.



Adam Cro-Magnon

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 10, 2012 - 7:53AM #7
miknik5
Posts: 7,684

Jun 9, 2012 -- 11:18PM, WaveringCC wrote:

Jun 9, 2012 -- 9:15PM, miknik5 wrote:

Jun 9, 2012 -- 5:34PM, WaveringCC wrote:


Jun 9, 2012 -- 4:38PM, miknik5 wrote:


I am so confused by all these posts with regards to "catholicism", "religion", and "christianity"...or at least this "new idea of christianity".

Please explain.

Who directs THE BODY anyway?
Men...or GOD?
And if those who have been called know they have been called according to HIS PURPOSE can they not stand up and do what they are called to? 


What is going on out there?
Have men lost sight of who they are in submission and subjection to?
Or, has everyone "progressed above THE HEAD"?

If HE is THE HEAD of HIS OWN BODY, can HE not direct the members of HIS BODY?


We were called according to HIS PURPOSE for the building up of HIS BODY...not our own!




I'm not quite sure what you are really asking.  Maybe you could clarify? 




The HOLY SPIRIT is still at work today.


That is what I mean.




OK, but your OP says that you are confused. And then you asked a series of questions. So, what are you confused about?  Why the questions? What are you hoping to learn?


Will anyone be willing to do what GOD said?  To grow up into THE HEAD and ALL KNOWLEDGE so that he won't be swayed by every wind of man-made doctrine...but will be able to discern the TRUTH from imitations?

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 10, 2012 - 7:58AM #8
miknik5
Posts: 7,684

Jun 10, 2012 -- 4:40AM, adamcro-magnon wrote:


I suppose there is a distinction between the 'ideologist' and the 'ideologue'.  The former studies ideologies, belief systems - and does so objectively (hopefully?) without necessarily highlighting one as superior to any other.  In fact the ethic of cognition which drives such enquiries favours no one particular belief system.  Unfortunately for some, if Ernest Gellner is correct, such a method of enquiry often undermines them all and queries sans end claims which various belief systems make concerning the meaning of life for it shows a knowledge beyond culture and beyond morality, a method of knowing which does not always sit well with the way of thinking so much espoused by the ideologue, who wants to 'live' the faith rather than interrogate it.  The ideologue in inside the tent pissiing out whereas with the ideologist it is the other way round.  Urine and you're out?


The latter therefore champions his/her own particular belief system, the most abstruse example perhaps being the dedicated theologian who coughs up armies and cohorts in a single inspired breath and persuades this way and that in an endless consecrated effort of ratiocination.  Such a person has already bought into the system of belief and finds it strange and confusing when claims which the belief system makes are queried and questioned by the ideologist.


Bnet, certainly where ‘Discuss Catholicism’ is concerned, houses both sorts yet gives ('hopefully' again) sanctuary to none.  I speak only in terms of ideal types, of rational fundamentalism v religious fundamentalism.  Such is the age we live in - for good and for ill.



Adam Cro-Magnon




What do you do with the man who has been born again and knows it?  For I tell you this anointing IS REAL...and since the man who has been born again of the SPIRIT OF GOD knows who he learned of and from, the words of men, (the opinions, ideas, suggestions, thoughts, notions,  imaginings) will not suffice.  It is only "yeast" added to the PURE UNLEAVENED BREAD OF THE WORD OF GOD WHICH HE PROVIDES


 

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 10, 2012 - 8:34AM #9
cherubino
Posts: 7,277

Jun 10, 2012 -- 7:58AM, miknik5 wrote:


What do you do with the man who has been born again and knows it?  For I tell you this anointing IS REAL...and since the man who has been born again of the SPIRIT OF GOD knows who he learned of and from, the words of men, (the opinions, ideas, suggestions, thoughts, notions,  imaginings) will not suffice.  It is only "yeast" added to the PURE UNLEAVENED BREAD OF THE WORD OF GOD WHICH HE PROVIDES


 




But the Catholic Church doesn't recognize "this anointing" or any authority derived from such private conversion experiences as valid. Teaching authority within the Church is conferred by dint of Apostolic Succession, which is to say it's not derived from theological concepts gleaned from scripture.

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 10, 2012 - 8:41AM #10
miknik5
Posts: 7,684

And so, are you saying, it is men, elders in the church, who decide who will be an ambassador to CHRIST?


There were 12 Apostles and the TRUE CHURCH would be built on THE ROCK, which is Peter's Confession of CHRIST as the SON OF THE LIVING GOD...but Peter, himself was not THE ROCK, Peter was a moveable piece of the rock/petra, but not THE ROCK...


I do not suspect that the church should let the man who professes that he has been called by GOD to immediately take up position, but wouldn't they "test the spirits"...and allow for THE HOLY SPIRIT to lead rather than asserting their own "spirits" on who should fill that position?


Even when they had to fill the "apostolic position" from the beginning, they drew lots but prayed that GOD who knows the hearts of all men, would choose for them the right one to fill that spot.


 


BTW...I do not believe that there are any more Apostles, but only witnesses of Christ, because we have THAT WITNESS in us, testifying of and pointing others to HIM...to the GLORY OF GOD.

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