Jun 19, 2012 -- 8:29AM, Miguel_de_servet wrote:

Jun 19, 2012 -- 7:43AM, Adelphe wrote:

Jun 19, 2012 -- 12:25AM, Qwesam wrote:

Jun 18, 2012 -- 4:55PM, Miguel_de_servet wrote:

For common mortals (that do not compare to the quite formidable profile that Jiwe can vaunt about himself, that is, including a "Master's in Philosophy (Modal Logic)", "work[ing] on a Ph.D. in the same" and "interest in Combinatorics") expressions like "by a trivial contraction collapses into", "trivially collapses into", "contraction principle" are quite unfamiliar.

Our limit, of course.

So, from the examples that he kindly provided at post #432 (or perhaps others), can Jiwe explain which "contraction principle" did he adopt so that F = (F, S, HG) "collapses" into F = (S, HG)?

All this, of course, bearing in mind that, presumably, F, S, HG are NOT "events" (NOR their probability), NOT "binary propositions" (NOR their truth value), NOT "true statements" (NOR their truth value that ... er ... trivially equals 1 ... whether they are taken by themselves or in conjunction).

To most of us profanes, Jiwe will perhaps excuse us, it all seems like magic ...

... or, to be more accurate, like prestidigitation ...

I have requested James to show us step by step how to get to that point.

I mean.. I really want to see it but he didn't respond.

He did--way back in #433 ...

You must really trust Jiwe totally, to the point of citing the wrong post # ... just as he did ...

MdS

Interesting.

Post #433 in my browser (Firefox) and I assume James', then, and others.

The exact quote I posted.

Apparently you're not on Firefox.

Here the number "433" shown right in the post itself.

If you're seeing something different in another browser, I'll report a technical issue.

6 days ago  ::  Jun 13, 2012 - 4:18AM #433 Report Post Delete Edit Quick Reply Quote Multi-Quote
Jiwe Posts: 310	Jun 12, 2012 -- 11:13AM, Qwesam wrote: Jun 12, 2012 -- 10:48AM, Blü wrote: James Ok, so you haven't understood the word "numerical identity". Start with that, look at some logic, and maybe you have a shot at understanding the argument. So far you're pretty  far from it. I have an understanding of the argument. It leads to the conclusions I listed, which show your post is a nonsense. Which is fair enough, since the Trinity is a nonsense. Exactly!!! And He calls himself a Math teacher?/?/?/?/?     I have never seen an "F" will disappear by itself in a Math equation. Unless, you have a magic and you want it to disappear.  I give it an “F” grade. I don't have the slightest doubt that you've never seen an F disappear by itself from a math equation. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen all the time. Here are some basic examples of the contraction principle I used, from other areas of math/logic: The probability of a proposition or event A is identical to the probability of A&A. I.e. P(A) = P(A&A). See! One A just dropped out by the magic of common sense! Another one: Let A be a binary proposition (i.e. it's either true or false). Then the truth value of A is the same as the truth value of the conjunction A and A. For short: A = AA (the rule is called idempotence btw.) Another: in formal logic every true statement implies every other true statement. So let A and B both be true. Then A = AB! (the truth value of A is the same as the truth value of the conjunction of A and B). Happy to introduce you to something completely new! James

Jun 19, 2012 -- 12:20AM, Blü wrote:

James

I just noticed your remark -

Ah yes, quote mining. Another Bluism to add to your record.

What quote do you suggest I mined?

You agreed that

G = (F, S, Gh)

isn't revelantly different to

G = F + S + Gh

in this context. which is what I've been putting to you interrogatively all along.

End of story, surely?

You would have to be pretty obtuse to read what I said as a concession to

G = (F, S, Gh)

isn't revelantly different to

G = F + S + Gh

in this context.

I wonder if it's deliberate or not? Oh well, in any case, you've got one thing right. This is the end of the story. Good riddance to you. No doubt this goes through an odd cognitive Blu-ish filtering process whereupon it's turned into a statement of defeat. I can't wait

James

Jun 19, 2012 -- 9:13AM, Miguel_de_servet wrote:

Jun 19, 2012 -- 8:44AM, Adelphe wrote:

Interesting.

Post #433 in my browser (Firefox) and I assume James', then, and others.

The exact quote I posted.

Apparently you're not on Firefox.

Here the number "433" shown right in the post itself.

If you're seeing something different in another browser, I'll report a technical issue.

Jun 19, 2012 -- 8:46AM, Adelphe wrote:

btw, anyone else having problems seeing the latest post posted sometimes on this thread (and/or others)?  I just posted a few seconds ago and it "disappeared" until switching the view to "show newest posts first."

Yes, I believe there is a minor technical issue, and it has nothing to do with the browser, but with whether you are in "Show Newest Posts First" or "Show Oldest Posts First" mode.

I use SNPF mode; Adelphe, Jiwe and others, presumably, SOPF.

For instance, the post with absolute #520767333 appears as #432 in SNPF mode and as #433 in SOPF mode. 

MdS

Yes, in my view it's "num=433#520767333"

We're gathering up some tech issues to report to the platform provider so I'll report this one too.

James

You would have to be pretty obtuse to read what I said as a concession to

G = (F, S, Gh)

isn't revelantly different to

G = F + S + Gh

in this context.

Then I'll ask you again.  How is

G = (F, S, Gh)

relevantly different to

G = F + S + Gh

in this context, seeing as how each of F, S and Gh is a single thing for present purposes?

This time, be so kind as to make yourself understood.  Don't, for example, make oblique references to fruit or bricks.

Jun 20, 2012 -- 7:23AM, Adelphe wrote:

mds:  So, from the examples that he kindly provided at post #432 (or perhaps others), can Jiwe explain which "contraction principle" did he adopt so that F = (F, S, HG) "collapses" into F = (S, HG)?

quesam: I have requested James to show us step by step how to get to that point.  I mean.. I really want to see it but he didn't respond.

adelphe: He did--way back in #433:

jiwe:  [step by step]...Happy to introduce you to something completely new!

quesam:  Yeah... It is nothing more than blah blah blah blah...

quesam I think keeps coming close to getting it and then it vanishes.  But then comes close again (but then it...vanishes.)  Part of the reason, I think, is because he needs to put the math aside (not away, not forever, just aside for a moment and accept this is logic.  Math is a science similar but not exact.)

So as quesam might be a good student (or at least claims "I mean, I really want to see it") let's see if I can be your TA James (note there's no ampersand in there, btw .)  I did tutor biology students but these were students who wanted to get it or needed to get it or they'd be banished forever to the halls of pseudoscience such as psych or sociology.  Or, worst of all--almost a fate worse than death--the school of...business.

So step-by-step...

Professor James:  I don't have the slightest doubt that you've never seen an F disappear by itself from a math equation.  Unfortunately, that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen all the time. Here are some basic examples of the contraction principle I used, from other areas of math/logic:

The probability of a proposition or event A is identical to the probability of A&A. I.e. P(A) = P(A&A). See! One A just dropped out by the magic of common sense!

"...Student: Let us see. P(A)=3/8, and P(AA)=9/64=3/8*3/8. It happens again!  Why?

Mentor: There are 3 outcomes in Event A out of the total of 8. When we roll the die twice (or roll two dice, which is the same), what is the total number of outcomes?

Student 1: We talked about that before! There are 8*8=64 outcomes.

Student 2: By the same logic, Event AA contains 3*3=9 outcomes. What we get is 3*3 out of 8*8, which means a probability of 3*3/8*8 = 3/8 * 3/8."

Good?  Or no?

Not even close!

You know what?/?/? One thing for sure it takes page after page for James to figure/work out F=(F,S,HG) function. It is not simple like  that.

If you want to play with 

the game is on...

Of course, if you want to use magic, it can happen.