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Switch to Forum Live View Christianity and a higher standard for moral conduct
2 years ago  ::  Jun 04, 2012 - 4:00PM #1
Kwinters
Posts: 22,596
Should Christians be expected to attempt to sincerely practice kindness towards others, to not mock or speak/write harmful things to people? Should they be expected to humbly admit their errors? 

In other words, do people who claim access to a higher truth put themselves up for higher scrutiny in their words and deeds?


Personally, I would say if you can't walk the walk then you discredit your belief system entirely.
Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 04, 2012 - 4:08PM #2
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,790

Jun 4, 2012 -- 4:00PM, Kwinters wrote:

Should Christians be expected to attempt to sincerely practice kindness towards others, to not mock or speak/write harmful things to people? Should they be expected to humbly admit their errors? 

In other words, do people who claim access to a higher truth put themselves up for higher scrutiny in their words and deeds?


Personally, I would say if you can't walk the walk then you discredit your belief system entirely.



I grew up believing this. That Christians did their best to be considerate and compassionate to their fellows, and not just fellow believers.


I have been sorely disappointed as I have grown up to find it is not true. 


Yes there are compassionate, considerate Christians, but that is the person, not the belief. The kind ones would have been so regardless.


I have also found the kindness, most loving people tend to be quiet about their faith, rather then beat people to death with it. IME


A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 04, 2012 - 4:13PM #3
Ebon
Posts: 10,148

Jun 4, 2012 -- 4:00PM, Kwinters wrote:

Should Christians be expected to attempt to sincerely practice kindness towards others, to not mock or speak/write harmful things to people? Should they be expected to humbly admit their errors? 

In other words, do people who claim access to a higher truth put themselves up for higher scrutiny in their words and deeds?

Personally, I would say if you can't walk the walk then you discredit your belief system entirely.



I'm not sure if I would go that far. We are all imperfect, after all. But I would expect those who profess Christianity to at least try to be a better person than most. I also wouldn't expect them to think of themselves as such. The two most "Christian" (in the positive sense of that word) people I ever knew were my grandmother and a friend called Ralph and both of them would have denied that they were better than anyone else.

He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God. ~ Proverbs 14:31

Fiat justitia, ruat caelum

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 04, 2012 - 4:18PM #4
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,790

Jun 4, 2012 -- 4:13PM, Ebon wrote:



I'm not sure if I would go that far. We are all imperfect, after all. But I would expect those who profess Christianity to at least try to be a better person than most. I also wouldn't expect them to think of themselves as such. The two most "Christian" (in the positive sense of that word) people I ever knew were my grandmother and a friend called Ralph and both of them would have denied that they were better than anyone else.




My Mother fit that bill. She was hard working, kind and sweet. She would never have considered herself anything special.  She never in all the years I can remember her, ever hurt anyone, or even said a harsh word about anyone.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 04, 2012 - 4:20PM #5
Adelphe
Posts: 28,744

Jun 4, 2012 -- 4:00PM, Kwinters wrote:

Should Christians be expected to attempt to sincerely practice kindness towards others, to not mock or speak/write harmful things to people? Should they be expected to humbly admit their errors?



Of course (by the way, this isn't along the lines of the "Bully" thread, is it?  Where it's just a really not-very-well-disguised rant?  I'll assume not.)




In other words, do people who claim access to a higher truth put themselves up for higher scrutiny in their words and deeds?



A very big part of that truth is that they are sinners in need of a Savior.  Remember Jesus' association with prostitutes and tax collectors and the horror the Pharisees...displayed? 


I'm also not aware of any other system that claims truth that affirms that as such or to that degree.  You can't throw out a huge chunk of the doctrine--in fact the very reason for that Savior.


Personally, I would say if you can't walk the walk then you discredit your belief system entirely.



How isn't this ad hominem, a logical fallacy?

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 04, 2012 - 5:31PM #6
newsjunkie
Posts: 5,750

Jun 4, 2012 -- 4:00PM, Kwinters wrote:

Should Christians be expected to attempt to sincerely practice kindness towards others, to not mock or speak/write harmful things to people? Should they be expected to humbly admit their errors? 

In other words, do people who claim access to a higher truth put themselves up for higher scrutiny in their words and deeds?


Personally, I would say if you can't walk the walk then you discredit your belief system entirely.



I learned as a schoolgirl in Catholic school that Christians should try to be kind to others. We used to sing a hymn that had this refrain: "They will know we are Christians by our love, by our love, They will know we are Christians by our love." That was also a strong message I heard from numerous religious Catholics (pastors, lay ministers, nuns) when I returned to the Church as an adult. There were some nasty ones too!


I learned the same message about kindness and respect from Girl Scouts, from my secular grandmother, from teachers in public school and elswhere. 


People slip up and are discourteous, mean, and otherwise unpleasant. It probably reflects more on their own lack of self-control than their belief system. When people are repeatedly unpleasant, other people usually try not to interact with the unpleasant person and the person either sees the results of their actions and tries to change or doesn't and becomes more isolated.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 04, 2012 - 5:39PM #7
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,790

Jun 4, 2012 -- 5:31PM, newsjunkie wrote:


Jun 4, 2012 -- 4:00PM, Kwinters wrote:

Should Christians be expected to attempt to sincerely practice kindness towards others, to not mock or speak/write harmful things to people? Should they be expected to humbly admit their errors? 

In other words, do people who claim access to a higher truth put themselves up for higher scrutiny in their words and deeds?


Personally, I would say if you can't walk the walk then you discredit your belief system entirely.



I learned as a schoolgirl in Catholic school that Christians should try to be kind to others. We used to sing a hymn that had this refrain: "They will know we are Christians by our love, by our love, They will know we are Christians by our love." That was also a strong message I heard from numerous religious Catholics (pastors, lay ministers, nuns) when I returned to the Church as an adult. There were some nasty ones too!


I learned the same message about kindness and respect from Girl Scouts, from my secular grandmother, from teachers in public school and elswhere. 


People slip up and are discourteous, mean, and otherwise unpleasant. It probably reflects more on their own lack of self-control than their belief system. When people are repeatedly unpleasant, other people usually try not to interact with the unpleasant person and the person either sees the results of their actions and tries to change or doesn't and becomes more isolated.




No one is perfect, we all do things we regret later. Because we are tired or under stress. No one is sweet all the time.


But I have seen many people consistently nasty  and at the same time proclaiming their Christianity. While defending atrocities.  


I have become completely disillusioned by Christianity as a whole. Sure there are wonderful people who are Christian, I have known many. but as time passes the amount mean people seem to be growing. And they use their Christianity to hurt people.


A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 04, 2012 - 5:54PM #8
Kemmer
Posts: 16,864

I'm also not aware of any other system that claims truth that affirms that as such or to that degree.  You can't throw out a huge chunk of the doctrine--in fact the very reason for that Savior.



As a gay man, I have encountered some p r e t t y nasty crap from "good, decent" Christian folks.  But now the laugh's on them, ain't it!  All we need to do is get rid of that smarmy tea party infested Republican party and its stooge, Romney, and it'll all be happily ever after.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 04, 2012 - 8:16PM #9
newsjunkie
Posts: 5,750

Jun 4, 2012 -- 5:39PM, mainecaptain wrote:


Jun 4, 2012 -- 5:31PM, newsjunkie wrote:


Jun 4, 2012 -- 4:00PM, Kwinters wrote:

Should Christians be expected to attempt to sincerely practice kindness towards others, to not mock or speak/write harmful things to people? Should they be expected to humbly admit their errors? 

In other words, do people who claim access to a higher truth put themselves up for higher scrutiny in their words and deeds?


Personally, I would say if you can't walk the walk then you discredit your belief system entirely.



I learned as a schoolgirl in Catholic school that Christians should try to be kind to others. We used to sing a hymn that had this refrain: "They will know we are Christians by our love, by our love, They will know we are Christians by our love." That was also a strong message I heard from numerous religious Catholics (pastors, lay ministers, nuns) when I returned to the Church as an adult. There were some nasty ones too!


I learned the same message about kindness and respect from Girl Scouts, from my secular grandmother, from teachers in public school and elswhere. 


People slip up and are discourteous, mean, and otherwise unpleasant. It probably reflects more on their own lack of self-control than their belief system. When people are repeatedly unpleasant, other people usually try not to interact with the unpleasant person and the person either sees the results of their actions and tries to change or doesn't and becomes more isolated.




No one is perfect, we all do things we regret later. Because we are tired or under stress. No one is sweet all the time.


But I have seen many people consistently nasty  and at the same time proclaiming their Christianity. While defending atrocities.  


I have become completely disillusioned by Christianity as a whole. Sure there are wonderful people who are Christian, I have known many. but as time passes the amount mean people seem to be growing. And they use their Christianity to hurt people.




I'm disillusioned by Christianity, too, mostly due to the beliefs. The people who are most to blame for any of my disillusionment are religious leaders, especially ones who are more interested in power and control, including over people who don't belong to their religion, than addressing the spiritual and practical needs of people.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 04, 2012 - 8:45PM #10
Blü
Posts: 25,190

A very big part of that truth is that they are sinners in need of a Savior.


Really?


Poor little buggers.


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