Jun 9, 2012 -- 10:27PM, jonny42 wrote:

There's a debt to pay, and one has to be willing to receive the payment for it.  The payment/gift can be rejected.

So poor Jesus dies and still ends up owing each human being something?

This gets more absurd as we go along.

It makes more sense that Jesus died for the sins of mankind, and his job is done.  It is up to humans to save themselves, to sacrifice something themselves as a gesture of good will.  I find the evangelical sentiments where the saved are due something quite valuable, but are 'like filthy rags' to be inconsistent.  This suggests a pretty stupid god.

When I went to grad school, my grandma offered to pay for some of the debt I incurred.   I could choose either a) accept my grandma's offer to pay it and apply the money towards the debt, or b) reject my grandma's offer and pay for it myself.

I hope that you are not so unsuccessful that you have to get bailed out by granny.  I notice you didn't tell us what your choice was.  But you know, don't you?

Jun 11, 2012 -- 10:52PM, jonny42 wrote:

God is brilliant and just.  

if this is the case why does it need an endorsement from a mere mortal, who is prone to error?  Why is it necessary you have to tell me and this god can't?  Almost like it doesn't exist outside of your imagination.

He gives man the choice to say "yes" to him/truth, or no.

Yet all we hear "truth" from is other humans, never a god.  And the Bible isn't a god, it is a book, not avalable in different languages and versions.  And we get so many different interpretations of the English version that we non-believers can't know what the truth is supposed to be.  You believers should get it sorted out before you try selling it to others.

Jun 11, 2012 -- 11:41PM, F1fan wrote:

Jun 11, 2012 -- 10:52PM, jonny42 wrote:

God is brilliant and just.  

if this is the case why does it need an endorsement from a mere mortal, who is prone to error?  Why is it necessary you have to tell me and this god can't?  Almost like it doesn't exist outside of your imagination.

I'm only retelling what he's already said.

Jun 12, 2012 -- 12:04AM, Paladinsf wrote:

Jun 11, 2012 -- 9:40PM, jonny42 wrote:

Jun 11, 2012 -- 7:37PM, Blü wrote:

jonny

There's a debt to pay, and one has to be willing to receive the payment for it.  The payment/gift can be rejected.

So Jesus didn't pay the debt, you say.  Instead he acquired it for his own use.

And now he says, You owe me, folks - so kiss my ass or go into everlasting hellfire!

Charming.

And very clear - a classical sales ploy.

Strawman.   

Not at all. The con has to have SOME hook. 

What's the hook in the con you hold?     

Jun 12, 2012 -- 1:19AM, jonny42 wrote:

Jun 11, 2012 -- 11:41PM, F1fan wrote:

He gives man the choice to say "yes" to him/truth, or no.

Yet all we hear "truth" from is other humans, never a god.  And the Bible isn't a god, it is a book, not avalable in different languages and versions.  And we get so many different interpretations of the English version that we non-believers can't know what the truth is supposed to be.  You believers should get it sorted out before you try selling it to others.

As if God can't communicate his truth through humans?   

Why would it?  Look how many different interpretations are out there about the same set of stories in the book.  Humans are terribly unreliable.  A competent god would make damn sure humans get it right, don't you think?