Jun 2, 2012 -- 9:45AM, Adelphe wrote:

Jun 2, 2012 -- 8:59AM, Blü wrote:

Adelphe

What "the NT"?  What's a "the NT"?  Scripture doesn't say anything about "the NT."

Nursery games now.

I accept your total and abject surrender.

I accepted your surrender long ago.  Just playing by the same rules you set in the nursery game now. 

My thoughts exactly.  Maybe we should have said, "I accept your surrender," long ago to whomever uttered the childish rebuttal that the w-o-r-d Trinity isn't even in the Bible.  For that matter, the word "God" isn't even in the Bible, as it was not written in English.  (However I think "Gawd" still appears in the KJV.)

However where the word Trinity could have appeared in the Bible, it was from those three Greek words that Discerner posted and rather than Trinity, the word Godhead or divinity was chosen by translators. 

"Trinity" is too specific in number to be a fair translation for theiotēs, theotēs, theios.

What it proves, Mario, is that there is a Greek word that implies the nature of God as being more than a "singularity".  That it is translated as "divinity" in its adjective form is appropriate.  Somewhat like royalty brings to mind more than one single being.  It suggests not only the Queen but also her family.

All Adelphe needs to add to make the following more readable is an 's:

The Godhead's power has bestowed on us everything necessary;

partakers of the Godhead's nature;

Jun 2, 2012 -- 10:48AM, Miguel_de_servet wrote:

Jun 2, 2012 -- 6:29AM, Adelphe wrote:

The word "Godhead" is interesting, isn't it.  Let's look at where it's used:

By Paul, Acts 17:29 - So since we are God’s offspring, we should not think [the Godhead] is like gold or silver or stone, an image made by human skill and imagination.

By Peter, 2 Pet 1:3 - I can pray this because [the Godhead] power has bestowed on us everything necessary for life and godliness through the rich knowledge of the one who called us by his own glory and excellence.

Again, 2 Pet 1:4 - Through these things he has bestowed on us his precious and most magnificent promises, so that by means of what was promised you may become partakers of [the Godhead] nature, after escaping the worldly corruption that is produced by evil desire.

I wonder why specifically "Godhead" was chosen here rather than "God"?

"don't think the Godhead is...an image made by human skill and imagination"

"the Godhead power"

"the Godhead nature"

What do you think?

I think that Discerner, at least (see post #40), presented the full picture of the three Greek words that the KJV (and other translations derived from the KJV) translates with "Godhead" (theiotēs, theotēs, theios). 

But while the first two are nouns (feminine, to be accurate), the third, theios, is an adjective, so it is proper to translate it with the abstract English noun "Godhead" ONLY when it is used as a noun, which is obtained by using the adjective in the neuter gender, preceded by the article (to theion), and the ONLY case for this, in the NT, is in Acts 17:29.

So the expressions used by the lady in the above "translations" ...

"the Godhead power" [2 Pet 1:3]

"the Godhead nature" [2 Pet 1:4]

... are totally improper, artificial and misleading. The ONLY proper and acceptable ones are:

"the divine power" (2 Pet 1:3)

"the divine nature" (2 Pet 1:4)

... which is adopted even but the KJV ...

MdS

Mario, I'm not sure how you can see our "trinitarian colored glasses" behind your....

Jun 2, 2012 -- 11:18AM, Ed.W wrote:

[a] ... where the word Trinity could have appeared in the Bible, it was from those three Greek words that Discerner posted and rather than Trinity, the word Godhead or divinity was chosen by translators. 

[b] "Trinity" is too specific in number to be a fair translation for theiotēs, theotēs, theios.

[c] What it proves, Mario, is that there is a Greek word that implies the nature of God as being more than a "singularity". (...)

[d] All Adelphe needs to add to make the following more readable is an 's:

The Godhead's power has bestowed on us everything necessary;

partakers of the Godhead's nature;

[a] The English word "trinity" could not have "appeared in the Bible" other than abusively, because the first time it was ever applied to the "godhead", in Greek, was the Greek word trias, which was first used by Theophilus of Antioch, about 170AD, to refer to "God, and His Word, and His wisdom".

[b] See above. The ONLY proper translations of the three above words (the last one only when used as a noun, neuter and with the article) are "godhead", or "divinity" or "divine being".

[c] This is a rather obvious and trivial comment, because the Greek adjective theios (as well as the feminine nouns theiotēs, theotēs) were born and used in the Greek speaking world way before they were used in the NT. Of course, as the Greeks were polytheists, they ALL implicitly referred to a plurality of "gods".

This, obviously, doesn't entail at all that any "plurality" in the Godhead is entailed in the use that the NT makes of those words.

[d] And why should anybody resort to such improper, artificial and misleading translation, when we already have the ONLY proper and acceptable one ...

"the divine power" (2 Pet 1:3)

"the divine nature" (2 Pet 1:4)

... which, once again, is adopted even but the KJV?

MdS

Jun 2, 2012 -- 2:22PM, Discerner wrote:

Jun 2, 2012 -- 8:59AM, Blü wrote:

Adelphe

What "the NT"?  What's a "the NT"?  Scripture doesn't say anything about "the NT."

Nursery games now.

I accept your total and abject surrender.

"The NT" means 'the New Testament'.

When you discuss anything with Blu, Discerner, you're not permitted to draw any inferences from the text of Scripture.  Unless the word itself appears in Scripture, it is repeatedly and expressly denied by Scripture.

As "the NT" doesn't appear in the text of Scripture, Scripture repeatedly and expressly denies "the NT"--therefore neither you nor he can discuss it as it simply doesn't exist.

That goes for anything (not) appearing in the text.

Follow?

Jun 2, 2012 -- 2:52PM, Adelphe wrote:

Jun 2, 2012 -- 2:22PM, Discerner wrote:

Jun 2, 2012 -- 8:59AM, Blü wrote:

Adelphe

What "the NT"?  What's a "the NT"?  Scripture doesn't say anything about "the NT."

Nursery games now.

I accept your total and abject surrender.

"The NT" means 'the New Testament'.

When you discuss anything with Blu, Discerner, you're not permitted to draw any inferences from the text of Scripture.  Unless the word itself appears in Scripture, it is repeatedly and expressly denied by Scripture.

As "the NT" doesn't appear in the text of Scripture, Scripture repeatedly and expressly denies "the NT"--therefore neither you nor he can discuss it as it simply doesn't exist.

That goes for anything (not) appearing in the text.

Follow?

Then I guess that the 'King James Bible' or the 'New International Version' does not exist. That being the case, then neither does scripture! Hmmm!

For his edification, the New Testament, or the NT, is not a quote of either words or quotes from the Bible, but rather it identifies and titles the collection of books containing scripture as being separate from those books that are contained in the Old Testament...the OT.

Good post above explaining the Greek word theios (2304). Theiotes(2305) and theotes(2320) are essentially the same. To me, it confirms the existence of Three Persons during the process of creation, for Genesis 1:1 mentions God and the Holy Spirit, or Spirit of God, moving across the face of the waters. In Genesis 1:26 it says that we were made in 'their image', meaning more than one Person.