Post Reply
Page 1 of 2  •  1 2 Next
Switch to Forum Live View Anybody have a 'Clue'
2 years ago  ::  May 28, 2012 - 9:51AM #1
Buggsy
Posts: 4,731

What do you get when you cross a Cardinal with a kidnapping, the Vatican Bank is involved and you shake it all up with secret documents and shady dealings?

Story here: www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/05/28/v...

Cardinal Mustard in the Vati-Bank with the Documents?

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 28, 2012 - 10:13AM #2
mokantx
Posts: 3,824

May 28, 2012 -- 9:51AM, Buggsy wrote:

What do get when you cross a Cardinal with a kidnapping, the Vatican Bank is involved and you shake it all up with secret documents and shady dealings?

Story here: www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/05/28/v...

Cardinal Mustard in the Vati-Bank with the Documents?



Buggs


The stories coming out of Rome on this are now flooding the media.  (NPR for example, had a pretty long story on this today). 


Can't help but notice that Benedict's response was something to the effect that 'we live in Babel,' and later stating that while the winds are blowing, the chruch stands strong.  (I can't help but wonder what he means by "church" as he says that...)



I'm sure that there will be many, myself included, who would prefer that the Vatican be transparent, pretty much at every level.  For me, this is a matter of trust, and frankly, I see precious little going on within the hierarchy to even start restoring that trust.    The bishops continue to remain silent when they see bad actors among their midst, all the while keeping up a constant stream of call-outs to all the ills they see in society...  Always aimed outwards, those guns just don't seem to be used at all internally...



As to the current mess, I'd have to wonder about the folks that put the copy machine in this Butler's home...  

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 28, 2012 - 10:31AM #3
Buggsy
Posts: 4,731

The reference to Babylon is pretty funny. When you strip away the thin layer of Christianity from the surface of the Vatican there it is - in full view with all of its splendor, regalia, gods and spectacle.


It's breath-taking

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 3:21PM #4
WaveringCC
Posts: 5,130

Maybe Dan Brown is behind it all?


www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/AL...



The Vatican spin-machine is going into overtime. I've lost count of the articles that have come up on google news today about this - all spinning the story of course to make the Vatican the victims and ignoring the sad facts that have created the scandal. (Sound familiar?).


This story really caught my attention. For years  our conservative brothers and sisters have dissed some of us on this site for suggesting that some Catholics confuse the pope (and the institutional church in general) with God.


Now  this - straight from Rome.


VATICAN CITY (AP) — The Vatican on Tuesday sought to put the widening scandal over leaked documents into a very different light, saying the stolen papers didn't just concern matters of internal church governance but represented the thoughts of people who in writing to the pope believed they were essentially speaking before God.



Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 3:59PM #5
jane2
Posts: 14,295

May 29, 2012 -- 3:21PM, WaveringCC wrote:


Maybe Dan Brown is behind it all?


www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/AL...



The Vatican spin-machine is going into overtime. I've lost count of the articles that have come up on google news today about this - all spinning the story of course to make the Vatican the victims and ignoring the sad facts that have created the scandal. (Sound familiar?).


This story really caught my attention. For years  our conservative brothers and sisters have dissed some of us on this site for suggesting that some Catholics confuse the pope (and the institutional church in general) with God.


Now  this - straight from Rome.


VATICAN CITY (AP) — The Vatican on Tuesday sought to put the widening scandal over leaked documents into a very different light, saying the stolen papers didn't just concern matters of internal church governance but represented the thoughts of people who in writing to the pope believed they were essentially speaking before God.






Stunning read, Wav........................




 

discuss catholicism
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 5:24PM #6
cherubino
Posts: 7,277

May 29, 2012 -- 3:59PM, jane2 wrote:



Stunning read, Wav........................



 



Holy hyperbole, snappers, it's brutal too.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 5:54PM #7
mokantx
Posts: 3,824

May 29, 2012 -- 5:24PM, cherubino wrote:


May 29, 2012 -- 3:59PM, jane2 wrote:



Stunning read, Wav........................



 



Holy hyperbole, snappers, it's brutal too.




Cher


Thank you for that link, for it now all becomes oh so clear...   From the article:


VATICAN CITY, May 29 (Reuters) - The Vatican on Tuesday denounced the theft of secret papal documents as a "brutal" personal attack on Pope Benedict as a powerful group of cardinals hunted more culprits behind the biggest crisis of his pontificate.


With the crisis over leaks of sensitive documents deepening, the third most senior figure in the Vatican fired a bitter salvo in the Vatican's official newspaper L'Osservatore Romano.


Vatican deputy secretary of state, Archbishop Angelo Becciu said in an interview that the publication of stolen documents in a recent book by Italian journalist Gianluigi Nuzzi was a "criminal" act.


It was the first time the paper has reported on the arrest of Benedict's butler nearly a week ago and it reflected the anger in the Holy See over what is seen as a betrayal of Benedict.


The newspaper also said the butler, Paolo Gabriele, 46, had been in possession of "a large number" of the pope's private documents, the first time the Holy See has come close to publicly quantifying how many documents Gabriele held.


"The act he (the pope) has been subjected to is brutal," Becciu said. "Benedict XVI has seen the publication of papers stolen from his house."



Now ladies and gentlemen, I have to ask this: Over the past 10 years, have we seen anything even CLOSE to this kind of a reponse from the Vatican over the abuse of literally THOUSANDS of children?


This thing is just chock full of goodies...

  • A "brutal act"...   (hmmm, this looks a lot to me like a property crime, and perhaps criminal because it took place in the pope's personal home.  But again, "brutal act" here, but NOT when kids are seduced or even raped?
  • Oh, and under what law is this "criminal?"  Is it that same dastardly secular law that Benedict just allowed his Italian bishops to AVOID bringing in if the crime is churchly pedophilia?  Or is it under Canon Law, wherein only the victims have to take an oath, but not the accused cleric?  Or does Vatican City have it's OWN set of secular law, in which case, why is one secular law so much worthy of church participation, when that "other" secular law just outside of that wall is not?
  • As the senior and "powerful" Cardinals line up to go after these horrible criminals, I have to wonder just a bit: where was all of that high powered "weight" when the issue was pedophilia in country after country across the globe, costing the church literally BILLIONS of dollars?
  • A bit further down in the article we have this:  While denying reports that the butler was merely a pawn in a larger power struggle among clerics in the Holy See, the Vatican has acknowledged that the affair would test the faith of Catholics in their Church.Really?  Why haven't we heard similar words, and seen a similar reaction in the Vatican to those other little things that are perhaps ALSO testing the fiath of Catholics in their church?

I'm sorry, but I see more humor in this reaction by the Vatican than I see anything that engenders sympathy from me, or that makes me think this problem is anywhere NEAR the level that should be triggering these kinds of alarms...  The comparison of these two events strikes me as the reaction of a king, and not a shepherd.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 6:10PM #8
cherubino
Posts: 7,277

May 29, 2012 -- 5:54PM, mokantx wrote:


I'm sorry, but I see more humor in this reaction by the Vatican than I see anything that engenders sympathy from me, or that makes me think this problem is anywhere NEAR the level that should be triggering these kinds of alarms...  The comparison of these two events strikes me as the reaction of a king, and not a shepherd.




This is more than humor. This is cornball, the stuff of withering satire.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 6:14PM #9
mokantx
Posts: 3,824

May 29, 2012 -- 6:10PM, cherubino wrote:


May 29, 2012 -- 5:54PM, mokantx wrote:


I'm sorry, but I see more humor in this reaction by the Vatican than I see anything that engenders sympathy from me, or that makes me think this problem is anywhere NEAR the level that should be triggering these kinds of alarms...  The comparison of these two events strikes me as the reaction of a king, and not a shepherd.




This is more than humor. This is cornball, the stuff of withering satire.




But then I must ask (seriously here): who is the intended audience?

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  May 29, 2012 - 6:46PM #10
woodmanx
Posts: 466

May 29, 2012 -- 6:14PM, mokantx wrote:


May 29, 2012 -- 6:10PM, cherubino wrote:


May 29, 2012 -- 5:54PM, mokantx wrote:


I'm sorry, but I see more humor in this reaction by the Vatican than I see anything that engenders sympathy from me, or that makes me think this problem is anywhere NEAR the level that should be triggering these kinds of alarms...  The comparison of these two events strikes me as the reaction of a king, and not a shepherd.




This is more than humor. This is cornball, the stuff of withering satire.




But then I must ask (seriously here): who is the intended audience?





Mo, isn't it obvious?  The only ones who truly give a rat's ass are the insiders, the cardinals and others inside who are threatened (by whom, I'm not sure) by the theft and publication.  The dark mask over the whole internal operations are again lightened somewhat by someone outside their power, and this slight illumination causes them to go into panic mode.  While the collective masses, after the initial chuckle, have a collective yawn.  These internal shenanigans have become SOP to the outside observers, to be expected.

Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 1 of 2  •  1 2 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook