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Switch to Forum Live View Cardinal Dolan: Church may give up feeding poor over birth control mandate
2 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 6:00PM #1
ted08721
Posts: 3,751
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2 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 6:07PM #2
mokantx
Posts: 3,814

May 24, 2012 -- 6:00PM, ted08721 wrote:

video.msnbc.msn.com/martin-bashir/475244...



Holy Crap

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2 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 6:51PM #3
Buggsy
Posts: 4,728

If I were Obama I'd tell this Dolan feller that his organisation will be left alone and the $2.9 billion will be used to support other charities. 


I don't think it's much of a threat to Obama as it is to Dolan and his own organization.  The point about this being bad timing considering the economic situation and the expectation of a remit to the poor, is excellent.  This is when Obama should stand up and take him up on his word and score some voting points with other political action groups and other charities. 


The RCC's worst enemy is itself - on many fronts.


I bet this guy will be real popular when his organisation lays off 10s of thousands of employees at catholic charities  and many more volunteers - real popular!

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2 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 7:12PM #4
mokantx
Posts: 3,814

May 24, 2012 -- 6:51PM, Buggsy wrote:


If I were Obama I'd tell this Dolan feller that his organisation will be left alone and the $2.9 billion will be used to support other charities. 


I don't think it's much of a threat to Obama as it is to Dolan and his own organization.  The point about this being bad timing considering the economic situation and the expectation of a remit to the poor, is excellent.  This is when Obama should stand up and take him up on his word and score some voting points with other political action groups and other charities. 


The RCC's worst enemy is itself - on many fronts.


I bet this guy will be real popular when his organisation lays off 10s of thousands of employees at catholic charities  and many more volunteers - real popular!




Buggs


This is saber rattling, and little more.  There's no way the lay community will let church leadership pull that kind of stunt, and if he did, the RCC would become MUCH smaller, though likely a lot LESS pure than it is today, and very quickly. 


So I think we need to look beyond this pretty transparent verbage to see what's going on under the surface.  And frankly, I don't know the strategy. From the outside, it looks like either lunacy, or an almost desparate play in response to some terrible threat that I can't see.  I AM pretty sure that the real threat that Dolan and his compadres are reacting to is likely NOT having to pay for birth control in their health care programs, nor even having to offer it.  There's somethng else behind all of this.  That's the part of all of this that is intriguing to me, and I can only hope that whatever it may be, there's some genuine substance to it, and not just more "neocon shift to the hard right" kind of stuff.  If the latter, then these guys are more disconnected than even I have thought, and y'all know, that says a lot!

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2 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 7:34PM #5
Buggsy
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mokantx


You're probably right but I think he should be called out anyway. Make this guy sweat in front of his own catholic constituents.  When employees threaten to leave because they can't have their way, they need to be shown the door and kicked out on their ass.


$2.9 billion is a tidy little sum that others could turn into a profit and give more back to the community


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2 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 7:46PM #6
mokantx
Posts: 3,814

May 24, 2012 -- 7:34PM, Buggsy wrote:


mokantx


You're probably right but I think he should be called out anyway. Make this guy sweat in front of his own catholic constituents.  When employees threaten to leave because they can't have their way, they need to shown the door and kicked out on their ass.


$2.9 billion is a tidy little sum that others could turn into a profit and give more back to the community




Buggs


I think it important to understand that many of the various Catholic Charities operate as the "best in class" charities, in that they have the lowest, most efficient/effective overhead of anybody.  So I suspect that while there are a TON of charities out there that would LOVE to get a piece of that money, from the government's perspective, in at least many of the Catholic organizations, the government is getting the biggest bang for their buck.  So in a (perhaps twisted way), a piece of what's going on when Dolan makes his "threats" is that he knows that it will cost the government (meaning the rest of us) a lot more money to deliver the same service if the RCC pulls the plug.  That's likely his "edge" here from the financial side.


But Dolan seems to be burning his candle at both ends, because while he's trying to present his position as that of the church, many of those in the pews, or who have left the pews, do NOT see his words as representing them or their wishes.  There is a quiet satisfaction, if not even pride among Catholics in the work done by Catholic organizations.  My wife and I do our best to support a local St. Vincent dePaul store here in Dallas.  When you go to places like this, you're NOT going to find iPads, or "cool" stuff.  But you will see real people, trying to do things to help others who are in need.  I'm hard pressed to imagine most of these people, who on days like today in Dallas will literally be investing their sweat in this effort, really believe that Dolan's words are something they strongly support...


So I remain a bit perplexed as to who Dolan thinks his real audience is here.  The media and pundits tell us that he's playing a losing hand.  So why does he continue to press this?

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2 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 8:00PM #7
Buggsy
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mokantx


I agree about charity work.  Funny my wife's mother volunteers and on the local board of a St Vincent de Paul Society in Derry City, N. Ireland. 


Anyway, these guys live in a fantasy world.  They think they have control over all RCC assets around the world when they don't. Catholic charities are separately incorporated with their own boards. 


But this brings up another thing that buggs me . .


The Vatican always leaves the bill for abuse of trust with the local dioceses and yet exercise complete control over the use of the assets in morals, rituals and institutional affairs.


Must be nice to receive all the benefits and bear none of the costs.

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2 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 8:12PM #8
cherubino
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2 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 8:18PM #9
Buggsy
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                 You tell'em Tim baby then come see me! Huh!   What say yoo, Facka'?

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2 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 8:48PM #10
mokantx
Posts: 3,814

May 24, 2012 -- 8:00PM, Buggsy wrote:


mokantx


I agree about charity work.  Funny my wife's mother volunteers and on the local board of a St Vincent de Paul Society in Derry City, N. Ireland. 


Anyway, these guys live in a fantasy world.  They think they have control over all RCC assets around the world when they don't. Catholic charities are separately incorporated with their own boards. 


But this brings up another thing that buggs me . .


The Vatican always leaves the bill for abuse of trust with the local dioceses and yet exercise complete control over the use of the assets in morals, rituals and institutional affairs.


Must be nice to receive all the benefits and bear none of the costs.




Buggs


In my case, my feelings about this stem from the fact that I CLEARLY don't understand the meaning of church...

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