most atheists are not atheist

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13 months ago :: Jun 03, 2012 - 6:25PM #251
Ken Posts: 33,857	Jun 3, 2012 -- 5:53PM, steven_guy wrote: Jun 3, 2012 -- 5:12PM, Silverada wrote: Absolutely Tellhard, I do not picture science, without taking in consideration the mystical side of life, without that, nothing make real sense, and I think as well as conservative religious people wants to ignore the evolution of life, as well modern science wants to hide the misterious and miystical part of nature. Very truly Indeed! That statement in bold is one of the biggest loads of bullshit I've ever seen posted here. A just appreciation of "the mysterious and mystical part of nature" absolutely demands the rejection of all religion, all cooked-up spirituality, and a strict adherence to science. Only science can provide the Great Existential Wow. You won't get that from Pangu and his stupid egg. Everything else reeks of the dreary, grey slime of human fabrication. Human fabrication isn't always or even often a bad thing, but there are times when one wants to be free of it. Only nature can provide a release. The nice thing about nature is that it is not conditioned by our ideas and limited by our concepts. It doesn't give a tiny rat's ass about us.
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13 months ago :: Jun 03, 2012 - 6:52PM #252
teilhard Posts: 42,726	YES ... !!! SOME Professional Scientists (thank "God," not ALL !!!) -- and their well-meaning but Self-deluded lay-Acolytes -- make the Fundamental Error of taking "Reduction-ism" and "Methodological 'Material-ism'" as not just simply merely only Lab-Bench Experimental and/or Observational USEFUL TECHNIQUES, but as FOUNDATIONAL Aspects of getting an Understanding of Reality-Itself ... I don't do that ... I prefer seeing the BIG Picture along WITH The very minute DETAIL Picture ... Jun 3, 2012 -- 5:12PM, Silverada wrote: Jun 3, 2012 -- 4:21PM, teilhard wrote: *It's even more basic that that ... "Scientists" deal with what THEY dealwith* and that is manifestly NOT Raw-Un-Filtered-Nature-Itself ... But rather, EVERY Scientific Investigator is highly SELECTIVE in CHOOSING what (s)he will investigate, observe, study, think about, manipulate experimentally, etc. ... Long BEFORE any "Scientist" begins to operate (supposedly) "Objectively" (to get at some"nude truth"), (s)he has already engaged a markedly "Subjective" Decision-Process ...** So any Experienced Thoughtful Scientific Investigator KNOWS from the getgo* that CONSIDERABLE sought-after "nude" Truth will remain draped and concealed ... (Hence the ENTICEMENT of ALWAYS going back-again-and-AGAIN for another Peek, MORE Glances, FURTHER Views ... "Mother Nature" is SEDUCTIVE ... !!!) ... Absolutely Tellhard, I do not picture science, without taking in consideration the mystical side of life, without that, nothing make real sense, and I think as well as conservative religious people wants to ignore the evolution of life, as well modern science wants to hide the misterious and miystical part of nature. Very truly Indeed!
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13 months ago :: Jun 03, 2012 - 7:09PM #253
Silverada Posts: 1,337	Jun 3, 2012 -- 5:45PM, steven_guy wrote: Jun 3, 2012 -- 4:54PM, Silverada wrote: Yes scientists still do not have a proper answer about the purpose of life That's because that is not a scientific or, indeed, a sensible question. We clearly have no purpose (other than the fact that we have the opportunity to pass on our genes, but that really is not a purpose). We exist and we have possibilities and limitations as individuals. Our time is clearly limited and it is probably better if we don't waste in on foolish questions about an imaginary "purpose" of life. Silverada Steve because that is what you believe, due to your own convinctions, it doesn´t make it an exact truth, I can´t prove my theories, but neither do you, which make both claims equaly right. . Jun 3, 2012 -- 4:54PM, Silverada wrote: other than an organic point of view. Science doesn't deal with such questions other than in the sciences of psychology and anthropology and their studies of human behaviour and cultures. Silverada The studies of human behaviour and cultures also contemplate the studies of religions and people religiosity which were and still are part of people daily life, and many studies claim there are unexplainable events and stories that science do not have other choice than to be perplexed because they do not have neither an answer or an explanation, but they can´t say for sure they are deniable. Jun 3, 2012 -- 4:54PM, Silverada wrote: But the "intuiitive myths", which are not really mine, do have an answer to convey reason and porpoise to the begining of the universe and the further development of life, even though is not as similar as science, but the answer that was given to us by our mystical ancient teachers , which they said can only be found in the laberinth of our own mind, which information come out from what they had called the "tree of life" which description resemble very much the three eliptic ladder of DNA or RNA. They do not have any answers at all. Myths were just myths: stories made up by the ignorant to explain things they couldn't possibly understand. [/quote[ Silverada That is your point of view, others points of view made by others of proved inteligency says different from yours- You can´t prove Myths do not have some kind of true behind it, but by comparison with modern science, we can find some points that we can say make a match in some issues. Jun 3, 2012 -- 4:54PM, Silverada wrote: They also stated that the tree of life is also the source of energy, inteligency and life force, and is as a different entity is living within our organic self, which is only the container or vessel of our real self, and which container or vessel will change throughtout the course of time. The above sentence is meaningless "New Age" nonsense. Define "life force". If I define to you what life force means in the mystical language you will say exactly the same, so I pass to give you any explanation, based in your constant denying of other people ideas and beliefs on matters regarding religiosity and mystical philosofy. Jun 3, 2012 -- 4:54PM, Silverada wrote: By other hand if we analize all present life, we will realize , life is based on a nucleic acid information molecule, which information is needed to make living cells. This information is coded in a triplex code, which code do not have radical variation and can be considered as universal and is interpreted as proteins by a complex machinery called the ribosome, that is also shared in common among all living things. All this information, storage an retrival provide, convincing evidence that all life on earth has a singular origen and share a very common starting point. It sounds familiar? We are the result of evolution. Life may have formed several times. It formed once and once simple self-replicating molecules existed, naturally they would come under the influence of natural selection. Silverada I do not deny that, is not my point in here, but to make you notice the singularity of the aource that sprung the universe which force is not known to science, but is recogniced by mysticals as the same life force that moves organic lives and make matter to evolutionate and be transformed. An this is a mystery not solved yet, regardless of science efford to unveiled it.
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13 months ago :: Jun 03, 2012 - 7:18PM #254
Silverada Posts: 1,337	Jun 3, 2012 -- 6:52PM, teilhard wrote: YES ... !!! SOME Professional Scientists (thank "God," not ALL !!!) -- and their well-meaning but Self-deluded lay-Acolytes -- make the Fundamental Error of taking "Reduction-ism" and "Methodological 'Material-ism'" as not just simply merely only Lab-Bench Experimental and/or Observational USEFUL TECHNIQUES, but as FOUNDATIONAL Aspects of getting an Understanding of Reality-Itself ... I don't do that ... I prefer seeing the BIG Picture along WITH The very minute DETAIL Picture ... Jun 3, 2012 -- 5:12PM, Silverada wrote: Jun 3, 2012 -- 4:21PM, teilhard wrote: *It's even more basic that that ... "Scientists" deal with what THEY dealwith* and that is manifestly NOT Raw-Un-Filtered-Nature-Itself ... But rather, EVERY Scientific Investigator is highly SELECTIVE in CHOOSING what (s)he will investigate, observe, study, think about, manipulate experimentally, etc. ... Long BEFORE any "Scientist" begins to operate (supposedly) "Objectively" (to get at some"nude truth"), (s)he has already engaged a markedly "Subjective" Decision-Process ...** So any Experienced Thoughtful Scientific Investigator KNOWS from the getgo* that CONSIDERABLE sought-after "nude" Truth will remain draped and concealed ... (Hence the ENTICEMENT of ALWAYS going back-again-and-AGAIN for another Peek, MORE Glances, FURTHER Views ... "Mother Nature" is SEDUCTIVE ... !!!) ... Absolutely Tellhard, I do not picture science, without taking in consideration the mystical side of life, without that, nothing make real sense, and I think as well as conservative religious people wants to ignore the evolution of life, as well modern science wants to hide the misterious and miystical part of nature. Very truly Indeed! Same as I do. I try to be on the midle of things without getting radical. Radicality is what have the world paralized, with serious impediments that do not allow people to grow and devolope as great as we can possible be.
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13 months ago :: Jun 03, 2012 - 7:53PM #255
JCarlin Posts: 4,798	Jun 3, 2012 -- 5:45PM, steven_guy wrote: Jun 3, 2012 -- 4:54PM, Silverada wrote: Yes scientists still do not have a proper answer about the purpose of life That's because that is not a scientific or, indeed, a sensible question. We clearly have no purpose (other than the fact that we have the opportunity to pass on our genes, but that really is not a purpose). We exist and we have possibilities and limitations as individuals. Our time is clearly limited and it is probably better if we don't waste in on foolish questions about an imaginary "purpose" of life. To the extent that the huge brain we evolved is capable of and is reshaping the world we live in, it would seem that we had better find a purpose to reshape it wisely or we, like all failed species, will find a lack of purpose in extinction. J'Carlin If the shoe doesn't fit, don't cram your foot in it and complain.
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13 months ago :: Jun 03, 2012 - 9:22PM #256
steven_guy Posts: 11,062	Jun 3, 2012 -- 7:09PM, Silverada wrote: Steve because that is what you believe, due to your own convinctions, it doesn´t make it an exact truth, I can´t prove my theories, but neither do you, which make both claims equaly right. No they are not. I have no beliefs about the meaning of life because it isn't a coherent question and no one has ever presented any sort of rational case that life does have any objective meaning. Jun 3, 2012 -- 7:09PM, Silverada wrote: The studies of human behaviour and cultures also contemplate the studies of religions and people religiosity which were and still are part of people daily life, and many studies claim there are unexplainable events and stories that science do not have other choice than to be perplexed because they do not have neither an answer or an explanation, but they can´t say for sure they are deniable. There are no unexplained events. Certainly none that are credible. We can study the way people are and think and it is clear that some people have taken belief in imaginary friends into adulthood and institutionalised such beliefs. Jun 3, 2012 -- 4:54PM, Silverada wrote: That is your point of view, others points of view made by others of proved inteligency says different from yours- You can´t prove Myths do not have some kind of true behind it, but by comparison with modern science, we can find some points that we can say make a match in some issues. No they don't. Name one myth that does. Jun 3, 2012 -- 4:54PM, Silverada wrote: If I define to you what life force means in the mystical language you will say exactly the same, so I pass to give you any explanation, based in your constant denying of other people ideas and beliefs on matters regarding religiosity and mystical philosofy. In other words it is merely a vague concept that has no real definition or foundation in facts. Jun 3, 2012 -- 4:54PM, Silverada wrote: I do not deny that, is not my point in here, but to make you notice the singularity of the aource that sprung the universe which force is not known to science, but is recogniced by mysticals as the same life force that moves organic lives and make matter to evolutionate and be transformed. An this is a mystery not solved yet, regardless of science efford to unveiled it. This sounds like nonsense me. Sorry about that. The universe has always existed in one form or another, why complicate things by suggesting something for which there is no evidence at all? Lightning and thunder were mysteries to the ancients, although sophisticated people even then thought that they were probably the result of some sort of natural process. However, many suggested and even argued that they were manifestations of the gods. We now know that isn't so.
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13 months ago :: Jun 04, 2012 - 12:53PM #257
Marcion Posts: 2,883	If we are not atheist, then what are we? Definition please.
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13 months ago :: Jun 04, 2012 - 1:53PM #258
mainecaptain Posts: 20,505	Again with the idiocy with "the meaning of life" nonsense. Life has the meaning we give it. It does not require another meaning. Nor does the idea of the existence of a *big giant creator* give life meaning. Even if there was one, it does not give human life any special meaning. People need to find their own meaning. And stop wasting their time hunting for it.. Because if they do find their creator, he may be really pissed that they wasted their life, thinking about this stuff, when they should have been living. One should life like there is no tomorrow, everyday should be lived to the fullest. Loving, savouring, never taken for granted. When you look for the meaning of life is something beyond, you are really missing out. A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato.. "A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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13 months ago :: Jun 04, 2012 - 2:20PM #259
Ken Posts: 33,857	Jun 4, 2012 -- 1:53PM, mainecaptain wrote: Again with the idiocy with "the meaning of life" nonsense. Life has the meaning we give it. It does not require another meaning. Nor does the idea of the existence of a *big giant creator* give life meaning. Even if there was one, it does not give human life any special meaning. Any purpose he might have would be his purpose. Why would it be mine? I might not even approve of it. And there's no guarantee that a big giant creator would have a purpose. He might just enjoy creating things.
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13 months ago :: Jun 04, 2012 - 2:31PM #260
mainecaptain Posts: 20,505	Jun 4, 2012 -- 2:20PM, Ken wrote: Jun 4, 2012 -- 1:53PM, mainecaptain wrote: Again with the idiocy with "the meaning of life" nonsense. Life has the meaning we give it. It does not require another meaning. Nor does the idea of the existence of a *big giant creator* give life meaning. Even if there was one, it does not give human life any special meaning. Any purpose he might have would be his purpose. Why would it be mine? I might not even approve of it. And there's no guarantee that a big giant creator would have a purpose. He might just enjoy creating things. You have very excellent points there. And it made me see the idea of a creator that just likes to create things, in a different way, that made me smile. And I don't even believe in a creator as such. Thank you A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato.. "A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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