²⁰ “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, ²¹ but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

Hebrew Servants

² “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. ³ If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. ⁴ If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.

Jun 1, 2012 -- 9:02AM, Truthwillset wrote:

Exodus 21:2-4

New International Version (NIV)

Hebrew Servants

² “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. ³ If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. ⁴ If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.

No doubt this lovely little example of God's overweening love was quoted 200 years ago as a Georgia plantatation owner sold a slave husband downstate, leaving his wife and 3 children to fend for themselves. 

Webster's Bible Translation
When its boughs are withered, they shall be broken off: the women come and set them on fire: for it is a people of no understanding: therefore he that made them will not have mercy on them, and he that formed them will show them no favor.

Hi Ed!   My response is in blue:

May 29, 2012 -- 10:13PM, Ed_3 wrote:

May 29, 2012 -- 4:13PM, Newtonian wrote:

Ed - Well, I am still learning myself - thanks to your good questions.   And the personal Bible study the slave has encouraged us to do.

I never considered before the difference between the judgment seat of God and the judgment seat of Christ in reference to the resurrection - or, for that matter, the judgment on deeds performed after the resurrection.

This important detail I learned from my personal Bible study:

(John 5:21, 22) ²¹ For just as the Father raises the dead up and makes them alive, so the Son also makes those alive whom he wants to. ²² For the Father judges no one at all, but he has committed all the judging to the Son,

Well, obviously, the Father, Jehovah, had judged many in the past - including those in Sodom.   But now things have changed!  

At least, from my understanding of John 5:21 - Jesus chooses to resurrrect some Jehovah had not chosen to resurrect!

Huh? I'm sorry, but I don't get how you get that from John 5:21.

John 5:21 shows that Jehovah resurrects some and Jesus resurrects others - you get something different from this verse?

Job knew that Jehovah would resurrect him, thus he wrote:

(Job 14:13-15) . . .O that in She′ol you would conceal me, That you would keep me secret until your anger turns back, That you would set a time limit for me and remember me! 14 If an able-bodied man dies can he live again? All the days of my compulsory service I shall wait, Until my relief comes. 15 You will call, and I myself shall answer you. For the work of your hands you will have a yearning.

Daniel did not specify who would resurrect those asleep in the ground of dust (Daniel 12:2) though this immediately follows Michael standing up (Daniel 12:1) - Jesus specified it would be at the sound of his voice (the archangel's voice as in Thessalonians):

(John 5:25-30) . . .“Most truly I say to YOU, The hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who have given heed will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to do judging, because Son of man he is. 28 Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment. 30 I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative; just as I hear, I judge; and the judgment that I render is righteous, because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him that sent me.

May 29, 2012 -- 4:13PM, Newtonian wrote:

Now, it may not be so simple.   I give the example of Lot's daughter's fiances to show how complex this can become.

First, those two men may have pleaded for Lot's daughters before the mob - our literature has brought up that as a reason why Lot offerred his daughters to the mob - knowing their fiance's would intervene for his daughters.

Well, what if they did?   This would be a basis for mercy - though they still deserved to die as they did not obey. 

Newtonian, I don't understand why you say that the two fiancés still deserved to die as they did not obey. Also, I know that your literature has brought up that the reason why Lot offered his daughters to the mob was for the reason that the two fiancés might plead for Lot daughters, however, Genesis 19:6-14a shows that the two fiancés weren't even around when Lot offered his daughters to the mob(emphasis mine):

⁶ Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him ⁷ and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. ⁸ Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”

⁹ “Get out of our way,” they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.” They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.

¹⁰ But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door. ¹¹ Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door.

¹² The two men said to Lot, “Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, ¹³ because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the Lord against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it.”

¹⁴ So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law...

Ed - good point - as I said, Lot's Sons-in-law were outside and Lot knew this and likely expected them to plead for his daughters to the mob outside.

Nonetheless, like some who died in the flood, they scoffed at the warning message Lot conveyed - you failed to finish verse 14!

(Genesis 19:14) 14 Hence Lot went on out and began to speak to his sons-in-law who were to take his daughters, and he kept on saying: “Get up! Get out of this place, because Jehovah is bringing the city to ruin!” But in the eyes of his sons-in-law he seemed like a man who was joking.

Of course, they deserved to die just as those who did not enter the ark deserved to die at the Noahchian flood.  

quote author=33922979 post=520217605]

It is not that simple either.   Lot's daughters may have or may during the thousand year reign plead for their fiance's in prayer.  Jehovah might not intend to resurrect them anyway - but remember Jesus will also resurrect those whom he wants to!

I'm sorry, Newtonian, but I still don't see why you or the Bible itself makes the two fiancés out to be such bad guys. I mean, were they really all that wicked and deserved to be burned alive...just because they didn't have any proof(as Lot did) that angels were going to burn the city to the ground?

Ed - I agree with you - you didn't get that?   The two fiances may not have been very wicked - they may well deserve to be exceptions to the rule that those who were destroyed in Sodom will never be resurrected.   I trust you understand that it was not just wicked people who were killed by Katrina - simply not heeding the warning to evacuate New Orleans did not make them wicked - but it certainly meant their deaths because they did not heed the warning!

People die all the time because they do not heed various wise warnings - and not just warnings by Jehovah's Witnesses either - warnings by meteorologists or the mayor of New Orleans also!   Warnings against smoking is another example.  

Those who ignore those warnings are fuming!  They go up in smoke!

But, Newtonian, the scriptures are very ambiguous on this. In some verses it says that Jesus isn't doing his will, but the will of the father. But in other scriptures, like the ones that you pointed out, it makes it sound like Jesus is in charge...distinct from the Father. However though, if the Father is suppose to be the sovereign of the universe, then how can anything really take place if it's not actually according to the Father's will? Therefore, Newtonian, according to scripture, there really is no such thing as Jesus' will being distinct from the Father's will.

Ed, you contradicted yourself above - the Scriptures do show that Jesus' will is separate and distinct from his Father's will - otherwise, how could Jesus plead for us before Jehovah - how could his serving as intercessor as High Priest make any sense?    Remember, the Bible does NOT teach the trinity doctrine!   The Bible does teach Jesus and Jehovah are one in unity just as Jehovah's Witnesses are:

(John 17:20-23) 20 “I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word; 21 in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth. 22 Also, I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. 23 I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, that the world may have the knowledge that you sent me forth and that you loved them just as you loved me. . .

I trust you realize that the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses are one with each other and with Jehovah and Jesus does not contradict the fact that we can plead for any of our brothers and sisters in prayer - or that the 144,000 underpriests will indeed also plead for us?

As I said, Ed - thank you for your thought provoking questions.  From what you posted next, it is clear you do not understand as we do just how Jesus and the 144,000 serve as judges and priests - it seems you think that all 144,001 automatically judge precisely the same as Jehovah judges!

That is false, of course!   There would be no need for 144,001 additional judges and priests if what you believed were true!

Thank Jehovah you are wrong!

(Hebrews 4:15, 16) . . .For we have as high priest, not one who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tested in all respects like ourselves, but without sin. 16 Let us, therefore, approach with freeness of speech to the throne of undeserved kindness, that we may obtain mercy and find undeserved kindness for help at the right time.

Did Moses's pleading for Miriam change Jehovah's perfect judgment in respects to Miriam - or did Moses' pleading cause Miriam to be shown additional mercy?