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Switch to Forum Live View Trinity and Omnipotence
2 years ago  ::  May 13, 2012 - 10:55PM #1
Blü
Posts: 25,075

There can be only one omnipotent being.


Traditionally Yahweh's omnipotent.  That means Jesus and the Ghost aren't omnipotent. 

But it doesn't matter which - if one is, the other two aren't.

How is that compatible with the notion that the three elements of the Trinity are co-equal?


Or are they like the three Graiai, who had only one eye which they passed around amongst them in turn?  Like Piggy having the conch?


If so, what IS the eye, the conch?  How is the power passed around?


Or is omnipotence vested in the committee - that none is omnipotent on his own but together they can do anything?

If so, when Jesus was on earth, no omnipotence was to be had.  The committee couldn't meet.


And the same when the Ghost's out on his round attending church meetings.



How does it work?

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2 years ago  ::  May 13, 2012 - 11:16PM #2
jonny42
Posts: 6,733

May 13, 2012 -- 10:55PM, Blü wrote:


There can be only one omnipotent being.



There can be an infinite number of omnipotent beings.   Why would one being's ability to do all things preclude any other beings from having the same ability?   Your assertion makes no sense. 


And anyway, the Triune God, by definition, is one being.


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2 years ago  ::  May 13, 2012 - 11:54PM #3
57
Posts: 23,445

May 13, 2012 -- 10:55PM, Blü wrote:


There can be only one omnipotent being.


Traditionally Yahweh's omnipotent.  That means Jesus and the Ghost aren't omnipotent. 

But it doesn't matter which - if one is, the other two aren't.

How is that compatible with the notion that the three elements of the Trinity are co-equal?


Or are they like the three Graeae, who had only one eye which they passed around amongst them in turn?  Like Piggy having the conch?


If so, what IS the eye, the conch?  How is the power passed around?


Or is omnipotence vested in the committee - that none is omnipotent on his own but together they can do anything?

If so, when Jesus was on earth, no omnipotence was to be had.  The committee couldn't meet.


And the same when the Ghost's out on his round attending church meetings.



How does it work?




Once again Blu thinks he has an argument against the Godhead and the Godheads attributes and can attack it. 


Of course explaining it to him will be rendered as useless...chiefly because no matter what is presented to Blu,  Blu will disallowed.  Blu has to disallow it.  Blu has no other option.


So, actuality this answer is not for Blu but rather presented to edify the believers. 


To help understand the Trinity...and understand why God is omnipotent, as well as omniscience and omnipresence...we have to see what the Godhead looks like.  


God is the Father.  God is the Son.(the Word)  God is the Holy Spirit.  


The Father is not the Son nor the Holy Spirit.


The Son is not the Father nor the Holy Spirit.


The Holy Spirit is not the Father nor the Son.


Complicated, I know. 


There is only ONE and true God,  but in unity of the Godhead there are three co-eternal and co-equal Persons the same in substance but distinct in substance. (B. B. Warfield)


All 3 are shown in the bible to be omnipotent, as well as omniscience and omnipresence.


One may be able to argue that during the kenosis when the Word...being God... emptied himself ...became flesh and was know as the incarnate God/man Jesus Christ did not use all the power of God but rather acted as a model for us to mirror.  Despite that Jesus still showed some "omni" abilities demonstrating through the Gospels He was still Divine. Emanuel (God with us)


Considering the Trinity is a difficult subject and no man clearly understand it, Blu certainly doesn't understand the Godhead and in no way has the ability to pass judgement against the Godhead concerning just what it is and just what it can do. 


 



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2 years ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 1:58AM #4
Blü
Posts: 25,075

jonny


There can be an infinite number of omnipotent beings.


No there can't.  There can only be one who's actually omnipotent. You haven't thought it out sufficiently.


Saying that the Triune god is one doesn't answer the questions in the OP.

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2 years ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 2:04AM #5
Blü
Posts: 25,075

57


Thanks for your reply.


God is the Father.  God is the Son.(the Word)  God is the Holy Spirit.  


The Father is not the Son nor the Holy Spirit.


The Son is not the Father nor the Holy Spirit.


The Holy Spirit is not the Father nor the Son.


Which one is omnipotent?



There is only ONE and true God,  but in unity of the Godhead there are three co-eternal and co-equal Persons the same in substance but distinct in substance.


Which one is omnipotent?



All 3 are shown in the bible to be omnipotent, as well as omniscience and omnipresence.


Please quote the part of the bible that says Jesus is omnipotent.


Please quote the part of the bible that says the Ghost is omnipotent.


Please explain how more than one can be omnipotent.


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2 years ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 6:12AM #6
Adelphe
Posts: 28,736

May 13, 2012 -- 10:55PM, Blü wrote:


There can be only one omnipotent being.


Traditionally Yahweh's omnipotent.



Because, Blu, (I remind you again) your second premise is false which leads to...


That means Jesus and the Ghost aren't omnipotent. 

But it doesn't matter which - if one is, the other two aren't.

How is that compatible with the notion that the three elements of the Trinity are co-equal?



...an invalid argument.


Traditionally Yahweh IS the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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2 years ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 6:15AM #7
Adelphe
Posts: 28,736

May 14, 2012 -- 2:04AM, Blü wrote:


57


Thanks for your reply.


God is the Father.  God is the Son.(the Word)  God is the Holy Spirit.  


The Father is not the Son nor the Holy Spirit.


The Son is not the Father nor the Holy Spirit.


The Holy Spirit is not the Father nor the Son.


Which one is omnipotent?



God.

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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2 years ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 6:45AM #8
jlb32168
Posts: 13,400

May 14, 2012 -- 6:15AM, Adelphe wrote:


May 14, 2012 -- 2:04AM, Blü wrote:


57


Thanks for your reply.


God is the Father.  God is the Son.(the Word)  God is the Holy Spirit.  


The Father is not the Son nor the Holy Spirit.


The Son is not the Father nor the Holy Spirit.


The Holy Spirit is not the Father nor the Son.


Which one is omnipotent?



God.


what Mme. Adelphe said

Victim of this, victim of that, your mama’s too thin and your daddy’s too fat, get over it! - the Eagles
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2 years ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 7:12AM #9
Blü
Posts: 25,075

Adelphe


Traditionally Yahweh IS the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.


Traditionally, Yahweh is the Jewish god, hence the Christian Father.  But that's okay.


You're saying that the committee of Father, Son and Ghost is omnipotent, while the Father, the Son and the Ghost individually are not. 


That works, except, as I said, when part of the committee is away doing something else, as when Jesus was on earth.


So, you say, omnipotence isn't constant.

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2 years ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 7:15AM #10
Miguel_de_servet
Posts: 17,093

May 14, 2012 -- 6:12AM, Adelphe wrote:

May 13, 2012 -- 10:55PM, Blü wrote:

[first premise] There can be only one omnipotent being.

[second premise] Traditionally Yahweh's omnipotent.


Because, Blu, (I remind you again) your second premise is false which leads to...


How is the "second premise" false, according to the lady, if the same ineffable lady immediately after affirms ...


“... Yahweh IS the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.”


... and attributes omnipotence to God = Yahweh = Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?


Oh, BTW, will the lady, now, confront Blü's questions ...

May 13, 2012 -- 10:55PM, Blü wrote:

There can be only one omnipotent being. (...) How is that compatible with the notion that the three elements of the Trinity are co-equal?


Or are they like the three Graiai, who had only one eye which they passed around amongst them in turn?  Like Piggy having the conch?


If so, what IS the eye, the conch?  How is the power passed around?


Or is omnipotence vested in the committee - that none is omnipotent on his own but together they can do anything?


How does it work?


May 14, 2012 -- 2:04AM, Blü wrote:

Which one [of the "co-eternal and co-equal persons"] is omnipotent?


Please quote the part of the bible that says Jesus is omnipotent. [?]


Please quote the part of the bible that says the Ghost is omnipotent. [?]


Please explain how more than one can be omnipotent.[?]


... bar none ...


MdS

Revelation is above, not against Reason

“The everlasting God is a refuge, and underneath you are his eternal arms ...” (Deut 33:27)
“Do you have an arm like God, and can you thunder with a voice like his?” (Job 40:9)
“By the Lord’s word [dabar] the heavens were made; and by the breath [ruwach] of his mouth all their host.” (Psalm 33:6)
“Who would have believed what we just heard? When was the arm of the Lord revealed through him?” (Isaiah 53:1)
“Lord, who has believed our message, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” (John 12:38)
“For not the hearers of the law are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be declared righteous.” (Romans 2:13)

“Owe no one anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.”(Romans 13:8)
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