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Switch to Forum Live View Appearances / resurrections
1 year ago  ::  May 09, 2012 - 11:34PM #41
stardustpilgrim
stardustpilgrim
Posts: 5,136

Here's my take. Enoch received a resurrection/spiritual body, he was walking along, God zapped him, and he walked right into heaven.


Same with Elijah. Going up in a chariot of fire is the image we are given as body is transformed into a body like Jesus had after the resurrection.


And then we come to Jesus. How did Jesus walk on water? How did Jesus slip through a crowd without being seen? If Jesus had a resurrection/spiritual body before his death on the cross, does that negate his suffering? No. I think Jesus was sort of phasing in and out, his resurrection body wasn't permanent until the actual resurrection. So, he really suffered, he really died.


Yea, I know there would be a lot of objections to this.....but it's something I've been bouncing around for a few years......


How about Moses? Well...it seems that he died and God buried the body on a mountain. There's some scripture somewhere about a dispute between God and Satan over the body of Moses. I don't know what that's about.


Maybe Enoch and Elijah are just OT resurrection types, a glimpse of what's to come.


Concerning the Mount of Transfiguration. I think what happened to Jesus was pretty normal, he probably saw and talked to *dead* people almost on a daily basis. What was special was the consciousness of Peter, James and John was elevated so they could look into the heavenly realm, and see part of the "cloud of witnesses".


sdp 

The purpose of words is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten.
Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk to.
The Way of Chuang Tzu by Thomas Merton

A map is not the territory.                                                                 Alfred Korzybski

When supposedly skeptical atheists and scientists pick on monotheistic religion in books, speeches and debates, they are simply beating up a court jester in a clown crown. They think that by clobbering the clown of religion, they have overthrown the kingdom of transphysical reality, but such arguments cannot sway anyone established in the integrated, co-creative state, which is the serious reality underlying the circus of religion.           
                                            Jed McKenna's Theory of Everything: The Enlightened Perspective, 57%
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1 year ago  ::  May 10, 2012 - 4:02AM #42
Blü
Blü
Posts: 21,174

stardust


How about Moses? Well...it seems that he died and God buried the body on a mountain.


Deuteronomy 34


5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD, 6  and he buried him in the valley in the land of Moab opposite Beth-pe'or; but no man knows the place of his burial to this day.



There's some scripture somewhere about a dispute between God and Satan over the body of Moses.


Jude


9 But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, disputed about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a reviling judgment upon him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you."



I don't know what that's about.


In Jewish tradition, Satan tells Michael that Moses was a murderer, and doesn't deserve to be buried.  Michael argues the point.
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1 year ago  ::  May 10, 2012 - 8:22AM #43
Iwantamotto
Iwantamotto
Posts: 6,144

Heh, and again, Satan has a point.

Knock and the door shall open.  It's not my fault if you don't like the decor.
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1 year ago  ::  May 10, 2012 - 9:27AM #44
57
57
Posts: 16,374

May 10, 2012 -- 8:22AM, Iwantamotto wrote:


Heh, and again, Satan has a point.




I wouldn't expect you or satan to be able to understand grace and mercy.
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1 year ago  ::  May 10, 2012 - 9:28AM #45
57
57
Posts: 16,374

May 9, 2012 -- 9:14PM, Blü wrote:


57


There will be no resurrection until the rapture of the Church.


Why do you think that?




because that's when the dead in Christ will rise. 


Right now there appears to be no need for you to worry about that..considering you'll miss it. 
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1 year ago  ::  May 10, 2012 - 10:31AM #46
dio
dio
Posts: 3,056

Then after the era of appearances or revelations, converted philosophers (Patristics writers) began categorizing the revelations winnowing away what they didn't like and creating a proto orthodox body. Out of so many they agreed on the synoptics which used common sources and John. Out of all the revelations only four accepted Gospels?
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1 year ago  ::  May 10, 2012 - 10:50AM #47
57
57
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May 10, 2012 -- 10:31AM, dio wrote:


Then after the era of appearances or revelations, converted philosophers (Patristics writers) began categorizing the revelations winnowing away what they didn't like and creating a proto orthodox body. Out of so many they agreed on the synoptics which used common sources and John. Out of all the revelations only four accepted Gospels?




Judging from your post...you have no idea how the bible was canonized.


You act as if a bunch of guy sat around in nily willy fshion and choose what books were to be part of the bible and what books were not. 


You have no idea of the acceptance criteria.....yet you mock the process. 
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1 year ago  ::  May 10, 2012 - 11:19AM #48
Blü
Blü
Posts: 21,174

57


because that's when the dead in Christ will rise.


Why do you think that?
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1 year ago  ::  May 10, 2012 - 11:23AM #49
Blü
Blü
Posts: 21,174

57


I wouldn't expect you or satan to be able to understand grace and mercy.


So you oppose the death penalty, I take it?
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1 year ago  ::  May 10, 2012 - 11:39AM #50
Kwinters
Kwinters
Posts: 17,683

May 9, 2012 -- 2:49PM, 57 wrote:


May 8, 2012 -- 1:06PM, Kwinters wrote:

1 Cor 15:5-8 
...and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also...

Matt 17:3
Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus. Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters--one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah."


If Moses and Elijah appeared to the disciples, does that mean God resurrected them from the dead too?

How is it possible to differentiate between resurrection and appearance? 



There will be no resurrection until the rapture of the Church.   This makes it an appearance.




Acts 9:36-42  Acts 20:9-12

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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