May 7, 2012 -- 7:37PM, Buggsy wrote:

May 7, 2012 -- 6:52PM, SeraphimR wrote:

And a magnificent civilization blossomed.

Are you sure?  I think that's when it started to deteriorate.  The early Egyptians were astronomers and builders of the great pyramids of the old kingdoms.  It was later when a priest class caste all that science and astronomy into mythical heros and magic that exacted the taxes from the dutiful flock and captured the imagination of the public.  Down it went into decline.

Irrationalism, superstition and myth always wins out over logic and reason in the public mind.  And it can rival even science and politics and take over the agenda.

The High Priests nominally owed allegiance to the king, but in practice they comprised an independent line of hereditary rulers, whose status was not solely religious, as they also held the title of Army Leader, making their regime probably more of a military dictatorship than a Taliban-style theocracy.

Here: www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/egyptians/...

Yeah, I'm sure.  It was climate change and the resultant famine which resulted in relative decline.

And it was the priestly caste which knew the astronomy and mathematics which allowed them to predict the Nile floods and reset the boundary stones after the flood.  They also invented writing which is a great help to magnificent civilizations.

The people you like and the people you hate were the same people.

May 7, 2012 -- 10:21PM, Buggsy wrote:

May 7, 2012 -- 9:17PM, SeraphimR wrote:

Yeah, I'm sure.  It was climate change and the resultant famine which resulted in relative decline.

LOL.  Never mind the Roman Empire it was climate change?? Who'da thought it was that pesky inconvienent empire-buster.

Certainly not the likes of you.

And what did the Romans have to do with it?  Egypt was ruled by Greeks long before those Roman upstarts started nosing around.

May 7, 2012 -- 10:57PM, Buggsy wrote:

May 7, 2012 -- 10:44PM, SeraphimR wrote:

And what did the Romans have to do with it?  Egypt was ruled by Greeks long before those Roman upstarts started nosing around.

You're changing the topic.  You were talking about the decline of Egypt.  The Romans ruled Egypt during its decline not the Greeks.  After the Romans Egypt was converted to Christianity.  All in all the priests (no matter what myth) were at the centre of Egypt's decline as a Pharaonic empire. Geez

What is the topic?  You are making bogus claims about history, and I am correcting you.

The Egyptian priests were present at the rise of the Egyptian empire.

And the Christian priests were at the center of rise of the Byzantine Empire which eclipsed even the Egyptians in wealth and magnificence.

All great civilizations are founded on a myth, and the priests preserve the myth.  When the myth grows weak, the civilization fails.

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own."

Source: Letter of Thomas Jefferson to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814.

May 7, 2012 -- 10:01AM, Marcion wrote:

Are the catholic laity ever going to wake up and confront the self serving hierarchy?

If every intelligent catholic withheld contributions on Sunday you would see action pretty soon. The dumb sheep will continue to be led by the evil clergy so we can't expect anything from them.

www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-pass...

Circling back to the original post, I thought this editorial was somewhat interesting today.  I'd never really thought of the actions of the church's leadership in this light, but I can certainly see where the author is coming from. 

I also found this line pretty good:

While the hierarchy shows no signs of growing and growing up through an adaptational mourning process, the rest of us can mourn the loss of the church we thought once was, so we are ready if a new day ever comes.

I think that latter part (in bold) may apply to many of us here.  I know I cannot go back to the RCC as it exists today, and it's likely that I will never be able to go back.  But the reason I don't slam the door forever to that possibility, is that I DO think some of what the church teaches is good (albeit often misunderstood), and I DO see the organization as still having potential to be a force for good in the world.