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Switch to Forum Live View Do demons get out of hell in the end?
3 years ago  ::  May 10, 2012 - 5:58PM #31
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

May 10, 2012 -- 5:05PM, 57 wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 4:27PM, davelaw40 wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 1:22PM, lope wrote:


.  Jesus said it was not those who call Him Lord...




Do you know why?




Dave,


Tell me your reason...I'd like to hear it. 




the Hebrew-aramaic word for lord is baal.

Non Quis, Sed Quid
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3 years ago  ::  May 11, 2012 - 10:12AM #32
lope
Posts: 11,796

May 10, 2012 -- 4:05PM, 57 wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 2:45PM, lope wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 1:56PM, 57 wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 1:22PM, lope wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 1:15PM, 57 wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 1:01PM, lope wrote:



News flash--To be a Christian one does not have to belileve the Bible is inerrant, we do not have to believe in demons and we do not have to believe Jesus murdered pigs.  I know you will have a problem comprehending that, but try, because it is reality.




Next you'll be telling me you don't need to believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ





I will tell you that believing the correct thing about God and Jesus is not what makes a Christian.  Jesus said it was not those who call Him Lord but those who do what He commanded and He commanded that we love others.  He did not command that we believe the bible is inerrant.  He did not command we believe in demons.   Actually He did not command that we believe in His resurrection. 




If you don't believe in his resurrection...then you don't believe in Jesus. 


Why? because Jesus historically rose from the dead. If you said Jesus did not, then you are following a false Jesus. 





I did not deny the resurrection.  I do deny the sheep in Matt 25:31 and following had to believe in the resurrection.  They did not.  I deny the Good Samaritan had to believe in the resurrection.  He did not.  The thief on the cross did not have to believe in the resurrection.  You are creating problems and rules in Christianity that have no business being there.  How about you concentrating on what Jesus said was all that matters in aligning oneself with the will of God--love God and your neighbor?




My point is the resurrection as well as other aspects of Jesus defines who Jesus is.   I do understand your point. 


I was referring to the following verse:


1st Cor 15:14


And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.


There are many so-called christians who make claims about the bible..such as no demons, despite the fact that the bible teaches there are demons that they remove a lot of text to satisfy a bad piece of theology. 


When one preaches this cut and paste gospel..there is no salvation in that message.


The virgin birth is another issue that people like to change as well as His death on the cross and the divinity of Jesus. 




The problem with your argument is your own guilt of cutting and pasting.  You have your theology and you cut and paste and use those verses that support that theology and do not pay any attention to those verses that do not support that theology.  If there is no salvation in any cut and past gospel, then there is no salvation, because all theologies cut and past.


On your point of the resurrection, you quote a verse that says we believe in vain if Jesus was not raised.  This is not saying we have no hope of eternal life if we do not believe in the resurrection.  It is not on point about believing in the resurrection.  The point is on the truth or reality of the resurrection, not on our belief or understanding of it.  The existence of demons is not relevant to our receiving eternal life.  Our understanding about demons or beliefs about evil spirits are not what determines our receiving eternal life.  Our belief about the inerrancy of the Bible is not what determines if we are sheep or goats.

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3 years ago  ::  May 11, 2012 - 10:14AM #33
lope
Posts: 11,796

May 10, 2012 -- 5:58PM, davelaw40 wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 5:05PM, 57 wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 4:27PM, davelaw40 wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 1:22PM, lope wrote:


.  Jesus said it was not those who call Him Lord...




Do you know why?




Dave,


Tell me your reason...I'd like to hear it. 




the Hebrew-aramaic word for lord is baal.





That verse is about the importance of obeying the command to love.  It is not about getting the correct version of the name of Jesus in the correct language.

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3 years ago  ::  May 11, 2012 - 10:21AM #34
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

May 11, 2012 -- 10:14AM, lope wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 5:58PM, davelaw40 wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 5:05PM, 57 wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 4:27PM, davelaw40 wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 1:22PM, lope wrote:


.  Jesus said it was not those who call Him Lord...




Do you know why?




Dave,


Tell me your reason...I'd like to hear it. 




the Hebrew-aramaic word for lord is baal.





That verse is about the importance of obeying the command to love.  It is not about getting the correct version of the name of Jesus in the correct language.





Ho 2:16 And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali. {Ishi: that is, My husband} {Baali: that is, My lord}


 Joh 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

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3 years ago  ::  May 11, 2012 - 10:33AM #35
57
Posts: 24,497

May 11, 2012 -- 10:12AM, lope wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 4:05PM, 57 wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 2:45PM, lope wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 1:56PM, 57 wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 1:22PM, lope wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 1:15PM, 57 wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 1:01PM, lope wrote:



News flash--To be a Christian one does not have to belileve the Bible is inerrant, we do not have to believe in demons and we do not have to believe Jesus murdered pigs.  I know you will have a problem comprehending that, but try, because it is reality.




Next you'll be telling me you don't need to believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ





I will tell you that believing the correct thing about God and Jesus is not what makes a Christian.  Jesus said it was not those who call Him Lord but those who do what He commanded and He commanded that we love others.  He did not command that we believe the bible is inerrant.  He did not command we believe in demons.   Actually He did not command that we believe in His resurrection. 




If you don't believe in his resurrection...then you don't believe in Jesus. 


Why? because Jesus historically rose from the dead. If you said Jesus did not, then you are following a false Jesus. 





I did not deny the resurrection.  I do deny the sheep in Matt 25:31 and following had to believe in the resurrection.  They did not.  I deny the Good Samaritan had to believe in the resurrection.  He did not.  The thief on the cross did not have to believe in the resurrection.  You are creating problems and rules in Christianity that have no business being there.  How about you concentrating on what Jesus said was all that matters in aligning oneself with the will of God--love God and your neighbor?




My point is the resurrection as well as other aspects of Jesus defines who Jesus is.   I do understand your point. 


I was referring to the following verse:


1st Cor 15:14


And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.


There are many so-called christians who make claims about the bible..such as no demons, despite the fact that the bible teaches there are demons that they remove a lot of text to satisfy a bad piece of theology. 


When one preaches this cut and paste gospel..there is no salvation in that message.


The virgin birth is another issue that people like to change as well as His death on the cross and the divinity of Jesus. 




The problem with your argument is your own guilt of cutting and pasting.  You have your theology and you cut and paste and use those verses that support that theology and do not pay any attention to those verses that do not support that theology. 


Can you present an example?  Are you saying the bible doesn't teach the resurrection of Jesus Christ?


If there is no salvation in any cut and past gospel, then there is no salvation, because all theologies cut and past.


You missed the point on "cut and paste".   By cut and paste large portions of scripture are changed.  For example, some say Adam was not a real person....so, what do they have to do? They have to cut out every verse in the NT that presents Jesus as a literal historical individual...or change it to fit their broken theology. 


On your point of the resurrection, you quote a verse that says we believe in vain if Jesus was not raised.  This is not saying we have no hope of eternal life if we do not believe in the resurrection.  It is not on point about believing in the resurrection.  The point is on the truth or reality of the resurrection, not on our belief or understanding of it.  The existence of demons is not relevant to our receiving eternal life.  Our understanding about demons or beliefs about evil spirits are not what determines our receiving eternal life.  Our belief about the inerrancy of the Bible is not what determines if we are sheep or goats.


My point was referring to the correct Gospel message.  If you present to someone a Gospel that is not correct there is no salvation in it.  If you present to someone a Gospel where Jesus didn't die on the cross for your sins you have no salvation.  If you present to someone a Gospel where Jesus didn't rise from the dead you have no salvation.  If you present to someone a Gospel where Jesus wasn't born of a virgin you have no salvation.  If you present to someone a Gospel where Jesus isn't God you have no salvation.









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3 years ago  ::  May 11, 2012 - 10:51AM #36
lope
Posts: 11,796

May 11, 2012 -- 10:33AM, 57 wrote:


May 11, 2012 -- 10:12AM, lope wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 4:05PM, 57 wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 2:45PM, lope wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 1:56PM, 57 wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 1:22PM, lope wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 1:15PM, 57 wrote:


May 10, 2012 -- 1:01PM, lope wrote:



News flash--To be a Christian one does not have to belileve the Bible is inerrant, we do not have to believe in demons and we do not have to believe Jesus murdered pigs.  I know you will have a problem comprehending that, but try, because it is reality.




Next you'll be telling me you don't need to believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ





I will tell you that believing the correct thing about God and Jesus is not what makes a Christian.  Jesus said it was not those who call Him Lord but those who do what He commanded and He commanded that we love others.  He did not command that we believe the bible is inerrant.  He did not command we believe in demons.   Actually He did not command that we believe in His resurrection. 




If you don't believe in his resurrection...then you don't believe in Jesus. 


Why? because Jesus historically rose from the dead. If you said Jesus did not, then you are following a false Jesus. 





I did not deny the resurrection.  I do deny the sheep in Matt 25:31 and following had to believe in the resurrection.  They did not.  I deny the Good Samaritan had to believe in the resurrection.  He did not.  The thief on the cross did not have to believe in the resurrection.  You are creating problems and rules in Christianity that have no business being there.  How about you concentrating on what Jesus said was all that matters in aligning oneself with the will of God--love God and your neighbor?




My point is the resurrection as well as other aspects of Jesus defines who Jesus is.   I do understand your point. 


I was referring to the following verse:


1st Cor 15:14


And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.


There are many so-called christians who make claims about the bible..such as no demons, despite the fact that the bible teaches there are demons that they remove a lot of text to satisfy a bad piece of theology. 


When one preaches this cut and paste gospel..there is no salvation in that message.


The virgin birth is another issue that people like to change as well as His death on the cross and the divinity of Jesus. 




The problem with your argument is your own guilt of cutting and pasting.  You have your theology and you cut and paste and use those verses that support that theology and do not pay any attention to those verses that do not support that theology. 


Can you present an example?  Are you saying the bible doesn't teach the resurrection of Jesus Christ?


If there is no salvation in any cut and past gospel, then there is no salvation, because all theologies cut and past.


You missed the point on "cut and paste".   By cut and paste large portions of scripture are changed.  For example, some say Adam was not a real person....so, what do they have to do? They have to cut out every verse in the NT that presents Jesus as a literal historical individual...or change it to fit their broken theology. 


On your point of the resurrection, you quote a verse that says we believe in vain if Jesus was not raised.  This is not saying we have no hope of eternal life if we do not believe in the resurrection.  It is not on point about believing in the resurrection.  The point is on the truth or reality of the resurrection, not on our belief or understanding of it.  The existence of demons is not relevant to our receiving eternal life.  Our understanding about demons or beliefs about evil spirits are not what determines our receiving eternal life.  Our belief about the inerrancy of the Bible is not what determines if we are sheep or goats.


My point was referring to the correct Gospel message.  If you present to someone a Gospel that is not correct there is no salvation in it.  If you present to someone a Gospel where Jesus didn't die on the cross for your sins you have no salvation.  If you present to someone a Gospel where Jesus didn't rise from the dead you have no salvation.  If you present to someone a Gospel where Jesus wasn't born of a virgin you have no salvation.  If you present to someone a Gospel where Jesus isn't God you have no salvation.












We all make many mistakes.  James 3:2.  Therefore none of us have a perfect gospel message.  Therefore it is your belief, but not the teaching of the Bible, that presentation of an incorrect gospel has no salvation in it.  All presentations of the gospel by human beings is flawed or in your words broken.  None are perfect.  I believe that teaching in James to be divine truth from God.  Do you?  Or do you cut that from your bible and ignore it?  You have created rules that require believing Jesus died on the cross to receive eternal lilfe.  The Bible does not teach that--only you and people with your theology teaches that, not the bible, not God.  The other rules you created are the same.  These are not what Jesus said when He was ask how do we inherit eternal life.  You have cut that part out of the bible and inserted your rules that do not come from the bible and are not in the bible.


I believe Adam was not a real person.  This in no way forces me to cut out every verse in the NT that presents Jesus as a literal historical individual.  I certainl believe Jesus was a literal historical individual.  That is not in conflict with my belief that the story of Adam was symbolic and did not refer to an actual person. 


I agree that the bible teaches the resurrection of Jesus Christ.  I do not agree that the bible teaches we must believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ to inherit eternal life, but if the bible does teach, that I reject it as divine truth.  I believe the Bible and Jesus taught that God is good and God is loving and kind and merciful.  I believe that to be divine truth.  When the Bible or any theology presents God as evil and murderous and a torturer of people and a killer of children I reject that theology as being divine truth.  I don't believe that about God and it is not compatible with being good and loving and kind and merciful.

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3 years ago  ::  May 11, 2012 - 11:08AM #37
57
Posts: 24,497

May 11, 2012 -- 10:51AM, lope wrote:



We all make many mistakes.  James 3:2.  Therefore none of us have a perfect gospel message.  Therefore it is you belief but not the teaching of the Bible that presentation of an incorrect gospel has no salvation in it.  You have created rules that require believing Jesus died on the crose to receive eternal lilfe.  The Bible does not teach that--only you and people with your theology teaches that, not the bible, not God.  The other rules you created are the same.  These are not what Jesus said when He was ask how do we inherit eternal life.  You have cut that part out of the bible and inserted your rules that do not come from the bible and are not in the bible.


If you are presented a salvation message where you are informed that Jesus didn't really die on the cross...there is no salvation in that Gospel message.  The reason is easily understood.  You have been presented a false Jesus.


I believe Adam was not a real person.  This in no way forces me to cut out every verse in the NT that presents Jesus as a literal historical individual.  I certainl believe Jesus was a literal historical individual.  That is not in conflict with my believe the story of Adam was symbolic and did not refer to an actual person. 


In my post I typed Jesus by mistake.  I meant to say Adam.  If Adam wasn't a literal historical person then Paul made several mistakes when he presents him as such.  Now, if Paul messed up there...where else did Paul get it wrong?  Then again my mistake where I types Jesus instead of  Adam syill holds water.  If Paul presents Adam as  symbolic and not referring to an actual person...what keeps Paul from presenting Jesus as symbolic and not referring to an actual person?


I agree that the bible teaches the resurrection of Jesus Christ.  I do not agree that the bible teaches we must believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ to inherit eternal life, but if the bible does teach that I reject it as divine truth.  I believe the Bible and Jesus taught that God is good and God is loving and kind and merciful.  I believe that to be divine truth.  When the Bible or any theology presents God as evil and murderous and a torturer of people and a killer of children I reject that theology as being divine truth.  I don't believe that about God and it is not compatible with being good and loving and kind and merciful.


If you don't believe in the resurrection...are you not rejecting divine truth?






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3 years ago  ::  May 11, 2012 - 11:32AM #38
lope
Posts: 11,796

May 11, 2012 -- 11:08AM, 57 wrote:


May 11, 2012 -- 10:51AM, lope wrote:



We all make many mistakes.  James 3:2.  Therefore none of us have a perfect gospel message.  Therefore it is you belief but not the teaching of the Bible that presentation of an incorrect gospel has no salvation in it.  You have created rules that require believing Jesus died on the crose to receive eternal lilfe.  The Bible does not teach that--only you and people with your theology teaches that, not the bible, not God.  The other rules you created are the same.  These are not what Jesus said when He was ask how do we inherit eternal life.  You have cut that part out of the bible and inserted your rules that do not come from the bible and are not in the bible.


If you are presented a salvation message where you are informed that Jesus didn't really die on the cross...there is no salvation in that Gospel message.  The reason is easily understood.  You have been presented a false Jesus.


I believe Adam was not a real person.  This in no way forces me to cut out every verse in the NT that presents Jesus as a literal historical individual.  I certainl believe Jesus was a literal historical individual.  That is not in conflict with my believe the story of Adam was symbolic and did not refer to an actual person. 


In my post I typed Jesus by mistake.  I meant to say Adam.  If Adam wasn't a literal historical person then Paul made several mistakes when he presents him as such.  Now, if Paul messed up there...where else did Paul get it wrong?  Then again my mistake where I types Jesus instead of  Adam syill holds water.  If Paul presents Adam as  symbolic and not referring to an actual person...what keeps Paul from presenting Jesus as symbolic and not referring to an actual person?


I agree that the bible teaches the resurrection of Jesus Christ.  I do not agree that the bible teaches we must believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ to inherit eternal life, but if the bible does teach that I reject it as divine truth.  I believe the Bible and Jesus taught that God is good and God is loving and kind and merciful.  I believe that to be divine truth.  When the Bible or any theology presents God as evil and murderous and a torturer of people and a killer of children I reject that theology as being divine truth.  I don't believe that about God and it is not compatible with being good and loving and kind and merciful.


If you don't believe in the resurrection...are you not rejecting divine truth?










I have no problem with the possibility of Paul being wrong about some things.  I am personally certain Paul made many mistake in theology also.  You don't seem to understand that we all make many mistakes.  That is divine truth.  Making mistakes in theology is not what prevents our receiving eternal life.  The sheep made the mistake of not understanding that loving others was loving Jesus and the goats made the mistake of not believing their mistreatment of others was mistreating Jesus. Their mistakes in understand things about Jesus had nothing to do with their being admitted into the presence of the father or not.   It was their loving or unloving actions that were the determining factor.   Rejecting divine truth is not what keeps us out of heaven.  Wickedness--being unloving toward others according to Jesus and the bible is what blocks us from receiving eternal life.  I am personally of the opinion that you are making some theological mistakes in your rules about who gets saved and why.  I don't think however those mistakes are what will prevent your being admited into the presence of God.  I know I am making many mistakes in my understand of God and the will of God, but I am at peace with facing God who does not expect me to perfectly undestand Him.  Now we see darkly as through a dark glass but then we will see clearly face to face.

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3 years ago  ::  May 12, 2012 - 8:20AM #39
Brainscramble
Posts: 9,725

May 7, 2012 -- 2:08AM, AstralProjectee wrote:


I've been doing a lot of thinking. What about Demons. Do demons get out of hell in the end? Please explain.

Peace!





Demons are not in hell and never have been.  "Hell" is mankind's common grave.  To understand how hell got confused with metaphorical fire, a person would have to peruse an Interlinear Bible where Hebrew and Greek are juxtaposed with the English.  Where Jesus speaks about "Gehenna," at Matthew 5:22,29,30 and also chapter 10 in Matt., verse 28; Matt.18:9;  and 23:15,33, this word is translated by many versions of the Bible as "hell."  This is misleading, because "Hades" is also translated as "hell," and Gehenna and Hades are not the same.  Therefore we have "hell" associated with symbolical FIRE.


Then we have the problem of associating hell with the demons, because now we have the idea that hell is a fiery place AND the demons are there, mostly because Jesus said that there is a "place" were the Devil and his demons will undergo a fiery destruction.  (Matt.25:41)  This is not a literal place but is a condition that the demons will find themselves in atthe end of Christ's Thousand-Year Reign.  They will be obliterated as if by fire.


Gehenna was a garbage dumb outside of Jerusalem where garbage and bodies of criminals were left to burn up---to nothing.  Jesus used this as a metaphor for the destruction of the wicked AND Satan and his demons.  Are you following so far?


Now....the fact that Satan and the demons are not consigned to any literal place, & especially not underground, can be seen by examining (1) Ephesians 2:2:  "in which you at one time walked according to the system of things of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit that now operates in the sons of disobedience."


That Satan is the authority of "the air" places him above-ground, it would seem.  Further:


(2) Ephesians 6:12:  "We have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places.


This Scripture clearly shows that the demons are not under the ground.  They are in high places in this world, directing everything evil that is going on.


 


As to your wondering if the demons will "get out of hell," the answer is---besides what I have already explained---they will be destroyed at the end of the Millennial Reign, AS IF they were consumed by fire, like the trash in a dump.  ("Gehenna" is SYMBOLIC for complete destruction.)


 


 

To our almighty God and Father (of Christ and ourselves):  "Show them you alone are JEHOVAH, the Most High over all the earth."  (Psalm 83:18)
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3 years ago  ::  May 12, 2012 - 10:01AM #40
57
Posts: 24,497

May 11, 2012 -- 11:32AM, lope wrote:


May 11, 2012 -- 11:08AM, 57 wrote:


May 11, 2012 -- 10:51AM, lope wrote:



We all make many mistakes.  James 3:2.  Therefore none of us have a perfect gospel message.  Therefore it is you belief but not the teaching of the Bible that presentation of an incorrect gospel has no salvation in it.  You have created rules that require believing Jesus died on the crose to receive eternal lilfe.  The Bible does not teach that--only you and people with your theology teaches that, not the bible, not God.  The other rules you created are the same.  These are not what Jesus said when He was ask how do we inherit eternal life.  You have cut that part out of the bible and inserted your rules that do not come from the bible and are not in the bible.


If you are presented a salvation message where you are informed that Jesus didn't really die on the cross...there is no salvation in that Gospel message.  The reason is easily understood.  You have been presented a false Jesus.


I believe Adam was not a real person.  This in no way forces me to cut out every verse in the NT that presents Jesus as a literal historical individual.  I certainl believe Jesus was a literal historical individual.  That is not in conflict with my believe the story of Adam was symbolic and did not refer to an actual person. 


In my post I typed Jesus by mistake.  I meant to say Adam.  If Adam wasn't a literal historical person then Paul made several mistakes when he presents him as such.  Now, if Paul messed up there...where else did Paul get it wrong?  Then again my mistake where I types Jesus instead of  Adam syill holds water.  If Paul presents Adam as  symbolic and not referring to an actual person...what keeps Paul from presenting Jesus as symbolic and not referring to an actual person?


I agree that the bible teaches the resurrection of Jesus Christ.  I do not agree that the bible teaches we must believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ to inherit eternal life, but if the bible does teach that I reject it as divine truth.  I believe the Bible and Jesus taught that God is good and God is loving and kind and merciful.  I believe that to be divine truth.  When the Bible or any theology presents God as evil and murderous and a torturer of people and a killer of children I reject that theology as being divine truth.  I don't believe that about God and it is not compatible with being good and loving and kind and merciful.


If you don't believe in the resurrection...are you not rejecting divine truth?










I have no problem with the possibility of Paul being wrong about some things.  I am personally certain Paul made many mistake in theology also. 


Oh he may have, but what is written and has become canonized I doubt it.   The logic is simple...if Paul got theology wrong in just one place in the bible it calls into question the other places Paul wrote about theology.  How do you know what part are correct? 


You don't seem to understand that we all make many mistakes. 


I fully understand we all make mistakes...which becomes your problem later on when you don't allow for mistakes.


That is divine truth.  Making mistakes in theology is not what prevents our receiving eternal life.


That would depend on what part of theology you are talking about. If you are talking about a certain interpretation from the book of Revelation you are correct...but if you are talking about theology surrounding the salvation message you would  then be dead wrong.


  The sheep made the mistake of not understanding that loving others was loving Jesus and the goats made the mistake of not believing their mistreatment of others was mistreating Jesus.


Are you not a goat from time to time?  Keep in mind just a few sentences up you said we all make mistakes.  


Their mistakes in understand things about Jesus had nothing to do with their being admitted into the presence of the father or not.   It was their loving or unloving actions that were the determining factor. 


Once again, are you telling me you are always "loving" and never have "unloving" actions?


 Rejecting divine truth is not what keeps us out of heaven. 


Divine truth is recognizing Jesus Christ died for your sins.  If you reject that divine truth it will keep you out of heaven.


Wickedness--being unloving toward others according to Jesus and the bible is what blocks us from receiving eternal life. 


Oh, you poor soul.  You just gave away your salvation with that statement.  Every man is wicked.  Some more than others. 


I am personally of the opinion that you are making some theological mistakes in your rules about who gets saved and why. 


You present  salvation as dependent on what you do. You have fallen into the gospel of salvation through works....which condemns you because you can never be loving enough.


I don't think however those mistakes are what will prevent your being admited into the presence of God.


It is sin that prevents you from being admitted into the presence of God.  There is a need to have sin forgiven.  This salvation does not occur because you feel "loving towards God today" then want to go out and earn your way into heaven.  Salvation comes through faith in Jesus Christ and what He did for you on the cross.  Your love for God and good works are a result of salvation and not the other way around.


  I know I am making many mistakes in my understand of God and the will of God, but I am at peace with facing God who does not expect me to perfectly undestand Him.  Now we see darkly as through a dark glass but then we will see clearly face to face.


I hope that is true.





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