May 31, 2012 -- 6:34AM, Ibn wrote:

May 30, 2012 -- 7:39PM, visio wrote:

The point I was highlighting in my last post was to draw a distinction between scriptural "son" and "seed".   Many would overlook the differences.  Anyway, thanks for reading this.

Actually, there is no similarity between Isaac and Jesus in terms of being "spiritual sons". The distinction is quite clear: one had no human father, had not married, had no descendants and, therefore, could be called "spiritual son" but the other one had a human father, had married and had children and grandchildren (descendants). If we begin to regard the latter as spiritual son then his descendants also will have to be regarded as spiritual descendants only.  

That, you may think so, br.Ibn.   The story of Jesus's conception and birth, as confirmed in the Al-Quran, was quite an extreme demonstration of That One GOD/ALLAH^swt's of OMNISCIENCE.   You would only appreciate it once you understand the inner workings in the creation and recreation or generation or the regeneration of each of the three constituents of the SELF embedded in the delusional solidity of our present form of the SELF.   So as I have said it all along when you talk about spiritual sons, or, even daughters for that mater, you (generic) have to think in terms of soul, spirit/mind and material bodily receptacle (flesh, blood, bones) separately.   From the bits and pieces of the present day, writen Taurat or even Zabur (Psalms) there is something that tells me that there were among the strings of authors/scribers, were those who have some ideas or knowledge of this divine concept/doctrine of the SELF.  However, from my reading so far, converging them to a single all-encompassing and fully integrated doctrine of of the way of life, is quite remote.   There are too many human aberrations and conjectures being injected into those scriptures, e.g. on the subject of sacrifices, the amount of words (laws) being put into it and mantraically repeated, indicate a kind of obsession, not much different than the paganic rituals that many posters on this board seem to despise, snidingly, off course.

Quite intentionally, I have been quoting, not verses from the Al-Quran, but from the present day written Taurat (Yorah), verses that I consider are of spirtual, doctrinal value, and quite disappointingly don't seem to get any positively enlightening titter.   Instead, you and me, are being pitched into a "brawl".   So, br. Ibn, why not call it the day on this particular thread, here,  and take this subject to the Islamic Forum.   There are more  ot it than about the superficial "Hey! this story is about X, and not Y, that is mentioned in your Book."

Jun 2, 2012 -- 2:17PM, Ibn wrote:

May 31, 2012 -- 9:50PM, visio wrote:

Quite intentionally, I have been quoting, not verses from the Al-Quran, but from the present day written Taurat (Yorah), verses that I consider are of spirtual, doctrinal value, and quite disappointingly don't seem to get any positively enlightening titter.   Instead, you and me, are being pitched into a "brawl".   So, br. Ibn, why not call it the day on this particular thread, here,  and take this subject to the Islamic Forum.   There are more  ot it than about the superficial "Hey! this story is about X, and not Y, that is mentioned in your Book."

Good idea!

The subject can't be fully discussed on this board as quoting anything from the Qur'an will be disliked here. But in Discuss Islam forum we can quote from the Jewish scriptures as well as Islamic scriptures and Muslims there will not be offended. So, I will take your suggestion and call it a day here.

Thank you, br. Ibn.   For a few days, let me think of a suitable OP/Thread Title to start with.  I'd love to get some lovely narratives/doctrine from the Injil (Gospel of Nazarene) into it, or even the same from the Law of Manu.