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Switch to Forum Live View Do we pray to same God?
2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 3:56PM #1
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,287
Hi,

I am posting this on the DJ, DI and DC boards because I want to know what people think about this guys' theory.

Personally, I have also thought that Islam is closer to Judaism because of its strict and uncompromising monotheism, its community structure, and its tradition of oral law (I know that the Muslims on these boards do not like it called that, but I have no other word for it). On the other hand there is no question that the direct connection between Judaism and Christianity through the person of Jesus, who was after all, Jewish, is not found between Judaism and Islam or Christianity and Islam. There is also the fact that the Christians pay more attention to  and place more emphasis and reliance on the Hebrew Bible than do Muslims.

So what do you think?

Frankly, I believe his premise that we may not be praying to the same G-d is nonsense.  If one believes that there is only one G-d, then it is only logical that there is only one G-d to which anyone may address their prayers. Thus no matter our intentions (and I believe we share the same intention), we must all pray to the one G-d.

    

Do we pray to same God?

Op-ed: Judaism, Christianity have much more in common with each other than either have with Islam

Dan Calic

How many times have you heard it said "we all pray to the same god?" These days we are hearing this from a growing number of people. To some degree one can excuse the average person from espousing such a viewpoint, as most people have not read the Bible and are not well schooled in matters of theology or eschatology.
. . .

One doesn't have to look very far to discover why this view is problematic.

 

The "Shahada," which is the statement of faith for the followers of Allah, reads, "there is no god but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet." This statement clearly differentiates Allah from any other "god."

. . .

The Quran, which is the holy book of Allah's followers, says "the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam." As this makes it clear a believer in Allah must follow Islam, one might ask if other religions are tolerated. According to the Quran, "if anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted…" So much for Islam's tolerance of other religions.

 
The Quran also is highly critical of Christians and Jews. Some quotes include: "Jews and Christians are evil-livers,” "Evil is the handwork of rabbis and priests,” "Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do Allah will consider you to be one of them."

 
Different values

Fundamental values for Christians and Jews include forgiveness, in addition to prohibitions against lying, adultery, and murder. Fundamental values for Allah's followers sanction judgment (fatwa,) lying (taqiyya,) men having multiple wives, and murder/suicide (martyrdom.)

 
While anyone is free to leave Christianity or Judaism, if a Muslim leaves the faith, or criticizes Allah, a fatwa is issued for their execution.

 

These distinctions make it clear Allah is a separate deity, with fundamentally different values, and has nothing in common with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Moreover, Allah has disdain for any religion other than Islam, and is highly critical of Christians and Jews.
. . .
 full article:
 http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4221932,00.html
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 7:08PM #2
Miraj
Posts: 5,020
The author of that article is an idjit.  I don't understand why ynet is enamored of idjits on its editorial pages.
Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 9:11PM #3
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,287

Miraj


It is all part of the free expression of ideas thing. Although, I have to agree that the author is something of an idiot. 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 2:39AM #4
Ibn
Posts: 4,437

The guy could be right.


But he forgot to give real reason for his silly opinion; Jacob wrestling with god and defeating him.


No Muslim can actually wrestle Allah and win.

I know one thing: There are a billion Islamic people in the world today, and there will be about 2 billion by the time we're dead. They're not going to give up their religion.
(Chris Matthews)
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 4:00AM #5
BDboy
Posts: 5,159

Apr 29, 2012 -- 9:11PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Miraj


It is all part of the free expression of ideas thing. Although, I have to agree that the author is something of an idiot. 




 


>>>>>>>>> If you keep asking questions quoting idiots, what should we think of you? Smile


Also, the noble Qur'an proclaimed that, our Maker did send books to Moses, David, Jesus (PBUT).


Also parts of those books has been supported by the noble Qur'an. Qur'an also spoke about other topics that was NOT covered in the Taurat. For example, my Jewish friends told me, Taurat does not talk much about "Life after death". Which Qur'an speaks about. There are other "Worldly" laws and guideline to live in a multifaith communities given in the holy Qur'an among many other things.


Therefore, God's eternal laws have been VALIDATED in the holy Qur'an and more topics were included to make it a more "Complete revelation to all humanity". For example, our food habits are very close to Jewish diet as well. We do not eat pork and follow "traditional" method of animal slaughtering. These laws were "Perfected" and "Completed" during the time of Moses (PBUH). Laws that did not cover other areas were covered in the noble Qur'an.


 


{Muhammad is Not The Father Of Any Man Amongst You. Rather He is The Messenger Of Allah And The Khaatim (last and final) Of The Prophets},

[Surah Al-Ahzaab, Aayah 40]

 

{ This Day Have I Perfected Your Religion For You, Completed My Favour Upon You, And Have Chosen For You Islaam As Your Religion},

 [Surah Al-Maa.idah, Aayah 3]

Then we have questions of PARTS of the OT and NT, since there are SOME contradictory parts in them. The Qur'an was revealed and preserved in it's "Original form". Which is not only meant for any tribe or nation rather for all of humanity.


So we have "Common roots" and our holy books came from same Allah (SWT).


 


Say(O Muhammad) : O Mankind ! Indeed I Have Been Sent To You All As The Messenger Of Allah; To Whom Belongs The Dominion Of The Heavens And The Earth. None Has The Right To Be Worshipped Except Him;

it is He Who Gives Life And Causes Death.

 

So Believe in Allah And His Messenger 

 The Prophet Who Can Neither Read Nor Write

Who Believes in Allah And His Words.

So Follow The Messenger Of Allah So That You May Be Rightly-Guided },

[Surah Al-A'raaf Aayah 158]


Hope this helps a little.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 9:39AM #6
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,287

BDboy


I post these things because it is important to know what is happening out there in the world and what people think and say. You may wish to meander over to the other two boards on which I posted the article. The response on the DJ board can probably be summarized "well this is silly" and the response on the DC board might be summarized as "damn straight!"  These are the responses I more or less expected. I also more or less expected the response the article has received on this board. 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 2:14PM #7
visio
Posts: 3,229

Apr 29, 2012 -- 3:56PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

Hi,

I am posting this on the DJ, DI and DC boards because I want to know what people think about this guys' theory.




Not even the slightest of theory but ignorance of the reality of what people, including his/her own people/ancestors have really worshipped/prayed to over all ages.   And the Almighty One ALLAHswt of the Al-Quran/Islam has this to-say and admitted:


"Most of them (including those called Muslims) only worshipped NAMES they have made and/or given for themselves."


If I were to comment what Jews and Christians do actually worship, it would most likely take the sum total of verses in the written Torah, Psalms, Tanakh, Mishnah, Injil - all added up together.   Suffice it for me to say it here that the Muslim worship i.e. that referred to as the salat is a process (ritual) and the perfection of it, in preparation for a final self submission and surrender.   In so far as I can remember no one on this board had ever asked what is being submitted and surrendered?  May be there is an overfill of self pride, yes?   In simple word, like a true English gentleman, which I am not, I'll answer the question myself.  What is to be submitted and surrendered is our BREATH and specifically THE LAST in this existence.   ALLAH in the Al-Quran is not a name but a sound (to-be executed perfectly) of this LAST BREATH that is to be submitted and surrendered to THAT ONE which we will meet after the LAST BREATH.   THAT ONE is as described/defined in sura Al-Ikhlas or Chapter 112 of the Al-Quran.  ALLAH in the first verse of the sura serves as an indicator to indicate THAT ONE we are going to witness after the sound of the LAST BREATH is heard (by) us to its finest and final note. After this LAST BREATH, there is no Arabs, no Jews, no Chinese, no Hindus, nor Muslims, no white man, no black man and ............... no God, but THAT ONE REALITY, to appear in our CONSCIOUSNESS, after that sound of our LAST BREATH is made and heard intrinsically. This is what cover it - the declaration and expresion of First Kalima of Islamic Shahada of faith and realisation of THAT ONE.   


What about the Second Kalima of Islamic Shahada that our ignorant commentator had his/her concern about?


That would be next - inshaAllah.


THAT ONE has given us IT's BREATH (of soul, spirit/mind and vital air) - our first.  We are to submit and surrender it in worship in thanking and glorifying IT - our last,  because the reality only THAT ONE exists from an endless beginning and endless ending.   


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 8:38PM #8
visio
Posts: 3,229

Apr 30, 2012 -- 2:14PM, visio wrote:


Apr 29, 2012 -- 3:56PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

Hi,

I am posting this on the DJ, DI and DC boards because I want to know what people think about this guys' theory.




Not even the slightest of theory but ignorance of the reality of what people, including his/her own people/ancestors have really worshipped/prayed to over all ages.   And the Almighty One ALLAHswt of the Al-Quran/Islam has this to-say and admitted:


"Most of them (including those called Muslims) only worshipped NAMES they have made and/or given for themselves."


If I were to comment what Jews and Christians do actually worship, it would most likely take the sum total of verses in the written Torah, Psalms, Tanakh, Mishnah, Injil - all added up together.   Suffice it for me to say it here that the Muslim worship i.e. that referred to as the salat is a process (ritual) and the perfection of it, in preparation for a final self submission and surrender.   In so far as I can remember no one on this board had ever asked what is being submitted and surrendered?  May be there is an overfill of self pride, yes?   In simple word, like a true English gentleman, which I am not, I'll answer the question myself.  What is to be submitted and surrendered is our BREATH and specifically THE LAST in this existence.   ALLAH in the Al-Quran is not a name but a sound (to-be executed perfectly) of this LAST BREATH that is to be submitted and surrendered to THAT ONE which we will meet after the LAST BREATH.   THAT ONE is as described/defined in sura Al-Ikhlas or Chapter 112 of the Al-Quran.  ALLAH in the first verse of the sura serves as an indicator to indicate THAT ONE we are going to witness after the sound of the LAST BREATH is heard (by) us to its finest and final note. After this LAST BREATH, there is no Arabs, no Jews, no Chinese, no Hindus, nor Muslims, no white man, no black man and ............... no God, but THAT ONE REALITY to appear in our CONSCIOUSNESS after the sound of our LAST BREATH is to be made and heard. This cover it - the First Kalima of Islamic Shahada.


What about the Second Kalima of Islamic Shahada that our ignorant commentator had his/her concern about?


That would be next - inshaAllah.


THAT ONE has given us IT's BREATH (of soul, spirit/mind and vital air) - our first.  We are to submit and surrender it in worship in thanking and glorifying IT - our last,  because the reality only THAT ONE exists from an endless beginning and endless ending.   





[Revision 1]


The second part of the Islamic Kalima Shahada (in full):


I'll bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of ALLAHswt.


There are two explanation of this.   One is exoteric, the other is esoteric.


But first one must see the following logic.  After the last breath it is your (generic) soul (consciousness complex) that "meets" with THAT ONE indicated as ALLAHswt.  And in the PRESENCE of THAT ONE the shared feeling is everything that is contained within THAT ONE is also contained within you and that includes Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, G. Buddha, the Satans and the whole Universe, in their spirit/mind and matter principles/forms as named but not in their Light (spiritual) forms which cannot be identified by names because they are all the same and individuated.   This is the Light of our Ascent to be realised at its highest point of enlightenmemt.  It is the penultimate state when the perfectly purified soul is reunited with its guardian angel (in the case of Muhammadsaw the one referred to as Gabriel) to become the ultimate angel proper that after an age would finally enter the Kingdom of THAT ONE indicated as ALLAHswt in the Al-Quran. 


Esoteric Explanation - Indirectly a denial of the person of phenomenal Muhammad (his light, soul, spirit/mind, body) is not God/ALLAHswt.   For the historical Muhammadsaw himself, he realised that his Light was the Light of the Divine Messenger and Slave.  When we are in the PRESENCE of THAT ONE indicated as Allahswt, we'll come to the same realisation of our very own Light of the Divine Messenger and Slave [Muhammad in the declaration is assumed as generic as Adam is).  So the declaration is an undertaking that when the moments come the Light we are going to witness is not THAT ONE indicated as God/ALLAHswt of the Al-Quran.  Ours then, as those of the prophets, were/are just angels.   There is a passage in the Al-Quran when ALLAHswt asked a group of angels:  "Is that you who man is worshipping and praying to?  The angels say:  "By your Glory, we hope it is not.  But we know many of them worship the jinns."  


Exoteric Explanation - Accepting as what is said literally and historically, an Arabic speaking messenger to remind mankind of Islam as the Path to THAT ONE indicated as God/ALLAHswt in the Al-Quran.

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2 years ago  ::  May 01, 2012 - 6:30AM #9
visio
Posts: 3,229

The guy conclusion is right in sense of that one God/ALLAHswt's verse which proclaims that what many of those non-disbelievers worship is not it's truth/reality but names they have given to themselves.  At the same time the guy is ignorant that the belief of a Muslim is that, following other verses in the Al-Quran, in the after death state of each of the immortal soul of every single humankind and jinnkind he is to meet and witness the same single reality and truth that in the Al-Quran is indicated as ALLAHswt as I have explained above.  Until their subsequent dispensation or re-incarnate either in the heavenly jinn kingdom (Israel) or on the earthly kingdom (Adamic), while in the presence of THAT ONE reality, they are muslim. Following their re-incarnattion, they either would retain or otherwise forget their muslimness.  Those who retain would thus maintain their Muslimness on earth as long as they follow the Teachings and Commands of THAT ONE Allahswt's transmitted by those Messenger/Prophets (rasul) sent to all Children of Abraham which 1400+ years ago ended with Muhammadsaw.  A long and complete line of prophets for the rest of hamankind and jinnkind to learn from and follow.


It is unfortunate that the guy has forgotten the Prophet Adam in him.  And he/she is still walking and/or kicking his butts around on this earth for such a long, long time he/she wouldn't know intill his/her next imminent forced submission and surrender of the BREATH, THAT ONE, Allahswt had given him/her.  It doesn't matter, though, for we'll all meet THAT ONE Allahswt's SINGLY as IT had created us (the soul) long, long time ago.

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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 5:11AM #10
BDboy
Posts: 5,159

Apr 30, 2012 -- 9:39AM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


BDboy


I post these things because it is important to know what is happening out there in the world and what people think and say. You may wish to meander over to the other two boards on which I posted the article. The response on the DJ board can probably be summarized "well this is silly" and the response on the DC board might be summarized as "damn straight!"  These are the responses I more or less expected. I also more or less expected the response the article has received on this board. 




 


>>>>>> That is fine Rocket!! Smile


Is there anything we have not covered?


We are simply sharing what Islam says. If you feel you like to ask more, feel free to ask those questions or share your concerns.


Salaam!

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