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Switch to Forum Live View Do we pray to same God?
2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 3:55PM #31
Ed.W
Posts: 9,407

Actually, the next logical step, Marcoe, is to realize that outside of Christianity a person has no God at all.


This same God bunk, is just the beginning of the multiple valid paths proposition.

Have you got anything I can sink my teeth into?
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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 4:30PM #32
amcolph
Posts: 16,331

May 2, 2012 -- 3:55PM, Ed.W wrote:


Actually, the next logical step, Marcoe, is to realize that outside of Christianity a person has no God at all.


This same God bunk, is just the beginning of the multiple valid paths proposition.




Pooh!  It is entirely reasonable to suppose that Muslims, for instance, pray to the same God we do but that their knowlege of Him is imperfect due to their rejection of the Gospel of John and Paul's letters as part of scripture.


No 'slippery slope' there.

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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 4:49PM #33
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,660

I am always stunned. People who claim to be monotheists. Meaning they only believe in one god. And then tell us that other Abrahamic (or even monotheistic) religions do not pray to the same god.


Particularly when they base their holy books on a single starting point. It is absolutely ridiculous. One must have to jump through amazing mind hoops, to say that others are not praying to the same god.


There would be no other choice. They are praying. They are aiming their prayers towards the god of the Jewish scriptures. What happens?, the prayer bounces off if they are the wrong religion.? Of course I am sure there are people who believe their god only hears prayer from their particular "approved" sect. "Approved" In their opinion.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 4:49PM #34
jonny42
Posts: 6,646

May 2, 2012 -- 4:30PM, amcolph wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 3:55PM, Ed.W wrote:


Actually, the next logical step, Marcoe, is to realize that outside of Christianity a person has no God at all.


This same God bunk, is just the beginning of the multiple valid paths proposition.




Pooh!  It is entirely reasonable to suppose that Muslims, for instance, pray to the same God we do but that their knowlege of Him is imperfect due to their rejection of the Gospel of John and Paul's letters as part of scripture.


No 'slippery slope' there.




Or more likely, they reject the Gospel of John and Paul's letters as part of scripture… because they are describing what they believe to be a different God than the one they pray to.   



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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 4:53PM #35
57
Posts: 20,570

May 2, 2012 -- 3:41PM, Seefan wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 3:08PM, 57 wrote:

Apr 29, 2012 -- 8:26PM, Seefan wrote:


Apr 29, 2012 -- 5:44PM, 57 wrote:

Apr 29, 2012 -- 4:50PM, Ed.W wrote:


I can say this coffee mug is the "one God", and tell you I pray to the "one God" without mentioning that He is a coffee mug, are we praying to the same God or not? 



Have you seen the mug of God?


If so, how can that be?


Exodus 33:20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."




In post #2 you say JC is God.  So now you are saying the JC can't be God for the people of the day could see JC! 


How can this be? Undecided  



Jesus is God incarnate.  That's how it can be. 



But you see that answer has been given and I humbly submit that it isn't possible unless you're referring to Jesus as being a perfect reflection of God's attributes within his person. 


You seemed to have ruled out the kenosis of Jesus Christ.


 In case you don't know, when I refer to a Manifestation of God, I'm referring to Jesus (as one).  As to what you've written, I can only say that my belief is as follows ........


"divinity attributed to so great a Being and the complete incarnation of the names and attributes of God in so exalted a Person should, under no circumstances, be misconceived or misinterpreted ... that invisible yet rational God ... however much we extol the divinity of His Manifestations on earth, can in no wise incarnate His infinite, His unknowable, His incorruptible and all-embracing Reality in ... a mortal being."  (Memorials of the Faithful, p. 34)


 Jesus Christ was fully God and fully human which answers the question. 


 


However, if you can show me where the bible claims Jesus is a god I'll consider ...


I should probably start another thread..but here is just a few verses that show Jesus is God.(not "a" god.


Jesus is God. Proof 1.




According to the OT God made the earth. 
Gen 1.1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth

Jeremiah 10:12
But God made the earth by his power, and he preserves it by his wisdom. With his own understanding he stretched out the heavens.

Psalm 89:11
The heavens are yours, and the earth is yours; everything in the world is yours--you created it all. 


COL 1:16     
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible  and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were  created by him and for him. 17  He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.


JOH 1:10      
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.


HEB 1:2      
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 


Considering the OT verses say God created.....and the NT says Jesus created...Jesus MUST be God.  


Jesus is God. Proof 2


1Kings 8:39


Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men;)


1 Kings says only Gods knows our hearts.


Mark 2:8 


Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, "Why are you thinking these things? 


If only God knows the hearts of people...and Jesus knew their hearts....Jesus must be God. 


Jesus is God. Proof 3


Only God forgives sins.


Isaiah 43:25


I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, 
And I will not remember your sins.


Mark 2:5-7


5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”


 6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”


If Jesus forgives sin...then Jesus must be God.


Jesus is God. Proof 4


In John 20:28 "doubting" Thomas after realizing who Jesus was in verse 27 proclaimed to Jesus..


My Lord and My God....and Jesus didn't correct Thomas. 


Jesus didn't correct Thomas because Thomas spoke the truth to the face of Jesus.


Jesus is God. Proof 5 


Speaking of Jesus:


Philippians 2:6


who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped.


In the description of the kenosis of Jesus...Jesus is described as God.


Jesus is God. Proof 6


Jesus was referred to as saying this in Revelation 22:13


I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.


...in other words...God.


 


 





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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 4:55PM #36
57
Posts: 20,570

May 2, 2012 -- 3:46PM, amcolph wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 3:06PM, 57 wrote:


Apr 30, 2012 -- 8:10PM, MMarcoe wrote:


Apr 29, 2012 -- 4:40PM, 57 wrote:



The answer is rater obvious to me.   The christians accept the biblical fact that Jesus is God.  The muslims don't.


Now, if the christians say Jesus is God and the muslims don't...then obviously they are different  Gods. 


The christian God is a Trinity...The muslim god isn't.   They are not the same.





They are the same god regardless of what Christians and Muslims believe.


God is not contained within belief. An "elect" person such as yourself should understand this, but clearly you don't. If you did understand it, you would see how Christians and Muslims could pray to the same god but have different beliefs about Him.


 




Your problem is that you too don't pray to the christian God.  




That's right.  You don't pray to the Christian God unless you believe exactly the same things about Him as 57 does.


It's called Salvation by Precise Correctness of Doctrine.


Gnosticism, for short.




The hate and lies you spew is really amazing.   Jesus Christ is the second part of the God Head.  I'm sorry amcolph that you deny that. 

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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 4:58PM #37
57
Posts: 20,570

May 2, 2012 -- 4:30PM, amcolph wrote:


May 2, 2012 -- 3:55PM, Ed.W wrote:


Actually, the next logical step, Marcoe, is to realize that outside of Christianity a person has no God at all.


This same God bunk, is just the beginning of the multiple valid paths proposition.




Pooh!  It is entirely reasonable to suppose that Muslims, for instance, pray to the same God we do but that their knowlege of Him is imperfect due to their rejection of the Gospel of John and Paul's letters as part of scripture.


No 'slippery slope' there.




Of course they don't acknowledge John's Gospel or pauls writings...they believe in a different God.  There is no salvation in the muslim god. 

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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 5:52PM #38
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 14,513

57


Not that I have a dog in this fight, but one can not prove the divinity of Jesus by reference to the Christian Gospels. One may, however, believe that Jesus is divine if one believes the Christian Gospels. One who does not believe in the Christian Gospels can not and will not be convinced of the truth, if any, contained in the Christian Gospels simply by reference to them. 


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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 6:01PM #39
57
Posts: 20,570

May 2, 2012 -- 5:52PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


57


Not that I have a dog in this fight, but one can not prove the divinity of Jesus by reference to the Christian Gospels. One may, however, believe that Jesus is divine if one believes the Christian Gospels. One who does not believe in the Christian Gospels can not and will not be convinced of the truth, if any, contained in the Christian Gospels simply by reference to them. 





All I did was point out some of the differences and why their god is different from the christian God.


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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 6:38PM #40
amcolph
Posts: 16,331

May 2, 2012 -- 4:55PM, 57 wrote:


 


The hate and lies you spew is really amazing.   Jesus Christ is the second part of the God Head.  I'm sorry amcolph that you deny that. 




That is a lie and offensive as well.  What's your problem?

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