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Switch to Forum Live View John 10:4-5 - What are the WTS teachings on this?
1 year ago  ::  May 05, 2012 - 8:53PM #11
57
Posts: 16,374

Romans 10:13 uses the word Lord.  


The word used is Strong's 2962.  

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1 year ago  ::  May 06, 2012 - 10:01PM #12
marken
Posts: 3,479

I liked  this  illustration.   However,  I  would  like  to  bring  attention  to  a  statement  Jesus  made  in  the  third  verse. He  said  the  sheep  would  LISTEN  to his  voice.   This poster  states  that  the  kid's likely were  saying  this  is  the  voice  of  the  person  who  always  tells  me  to  clean  my  room.   But  do  they  LISTEN?  The  answer  is  yes  if  they only have  to  be  told  once  and  their  room  is  cleaned. 


It  is  a  terrible  charge  that  the  WTS  would  hate  this  passage.  We  believe  that  Jesus  asked  us  to  share  our  knowledge  with other  humans  just  before  he  returned  to heaven.  Matt  28:19,20.  we know  that  Jesus  will not  speak  to  anyone  that  does  not  read  and  study  the  scriptures.  Both he  and  the  scriptures  are called  the  Word  of  God.  The  governing  body of  Jehovah's  Witnesses  and  the  anointed  still on  earth,  and the  great  crowd  who  are  looking  for  the protection of  Jesus when he  destroys  wickedness  from  the  earth have  all  listened  to  this  command  and  they  say  Come! (just  as they  are  instructed  to  do) Come and  drink  life's  water  free!Rev 22:17


The  scripture  at  Romans 10:13  states  that  everyone  who  calls  on  the  name  of  Jehovah  will  be  saved.  However,  it  shows  the  responsibility of  Christians to  share  their  knowledge in  the  next two  verses.  How  can  people  listen  to someone  they  have  never heard  of?Both  Moses  and  Isaiah  are  quoted  as  speaking  for  Jehovah. verses 19-21.  If  we  just  sit  in  the  company  of  those  we  love  and  love  us  in  return,  the  people  outside  will not  hear  the  wonderful  good  news  of  God's  kingdom.  We  have  to  speak  of  these  things  to people  who  may  not  yet  love  Jesus and Jehovah,  but  they  will  as they  learn  of their  goodness.


with  affection  from  Marken

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1 year ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 6:56PM #13
Newtonian
Posts: 9,420

May 5, 2012 -- 8:53PM, 57 wrote:


Romans 10:13 uses the word Lord.  


The word used is Strong's 2962.  




57 - True - but you failed to note Scofield's marginal note showing that this is a quote from the Hebrew Scriptures containing the Divine Name.  Again, at Romans 10:13 next to Lord (Greek Kyrios) Scofield has marginal note 'l' which reads in the genuine Scofield Reference Bible:


"l Jehovah, Joel 2.32"


See my thread on Scofield's marginal notes which have been removed by most sources - I suspect in part because Scofield frequently notes where Jehovah is in the Hebrew text.


The Divine Name was removed from the Greek LXX OT aroung the early third century CE, and possibly earlier from some NT Greek mss. - though we do not have any NT mss. that would contain the Divine Name from before it was removed- but we do have older LXX mss. which retain the Divine Name in Hebrew characters in the Greek text.


E-Sword offers a number of Bible translations for free download - and one is a Hebrew New Testament (= Christian Greek Scriptures) or HNT.   Like many Hebrew translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures (= NT), it restores the Divine Name where it belongs in the text.   Thus HNT at Romans 10:13 reads, in Hebrew:


Rom 10:13  כי־כל אשר־יקר


 


א בשם יהוה ימלט׃


 


 יהוה



That is the Divine Name in Hebrew, Strong's H 3068, which Strong transliterates "Yehovah," to wit:


H3068 יהוה yehôvâh


It is not the Hebrew word adon (H113) or adonay (H136) which mean "Lord/lord" nor is it elohim (H430) which means God/gods as in Exodus 4:16 & 7:1 referring to Moses as God, in the plural of excellence.


Greek Kyrios, btw, is the title "Lord" in Greek.

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1 year ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 7:00PM #14
Newtonian
Posts: 9,420

May 6, 2012 -- 10:01PM, marken wrote:


I liked  this  illustration.   However,  I  would  like  to  bring  attention  to  a  statement  Jesus  made  in  the  third  verse. He  said  the  sheep  would  LISTEN  to his  voice.   This poster  states  that  the  kid's likely were  saying  this  is  the  voice  of  the  person  who  always  tells  me  to  clean  my  room.   But  do  they  LISTEN?  The  answer  is  yes  if  they only have  to  be  told  once  and  their  room  is  cleaned. 


It  is  a  terrible  charge  that  the  WTS  would  hate  this  passage.  We  believe  that  Jesus  asked  us  to  share  our  knowledge  with other  humans  just  before  he  returned  to heaven.  Matt  28:19,20.  we know  that  Jesus  will not  speak  to  anyone  that  does  not  read  and  study  the  scriptures.  Both he  and  the  scriptures  are called  the  Word  of  God.  The  governing  body of  Jehovah's  Witnesses  and  the  anointed  still on  earth,  and the  great  crowd  who  are  looking  for  the protection of  Jesus when he  destroys  wickedness  from  the  earth have  all  listened  to  this  command  and  they  say  Come! (just  as they  are  instructed  to  do) Come and  drink  life's  water  free!Rev 22:17


The  scripture  at  Romans 10:13  states  that  everyone  who  calls  on  the  name  of  Jehovah  will  be  saved.  However,  it  shows  the  responsibility of  Christians to  share  their  knowledge in  the  next two  verses.  How  can  people  listen  to someone  they  have  never heard  of?Both  Moses  and  Isaiah  are  quoted  as  speaking  for  Jehovah. verses 19-21.  If  we  just  sit  in  the  company  of  those  we  love  and  love  us  in  return,  the  people  outside  will not  hear  the  wonderful  good  news  of  God's  kingdom.  We  have  to  speak  of  these  things  to people  who  may  not  yet  love  Jesus and Jehovah,  but  they  will  as they  learn  of their  goodness.


with  affection  from  Marken




Hi Marken - Indeed, some have made terrible false charges against us - thank you for setting matters straight!


With affection also, from Paul aka Newtonian!

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1 year ago  ::  May 14, 2012 - 9:55PM #15
Svetlana
Posts: 10,759

May 6, 2012 -- 10:01PM, marken wrote:


I liked  this  illustration.   However,  I  would  like  to  bring  attention  to  a  statement  Jesus  made  in  the  third  verse. He  said  the  sheep  would  LISTEN  to his  voice.   This poster  states  that  the  kid's likely were  saying  this  is  the  voice  of  the  person  who  always  tells  me  to  clean  my  room.   But  do  they  LISTEN?  The  answer  is  yes  if  they only have  to  be  told  once  and  their  room  is  cleaned. 


It  is  a  terrible  charge  that  the  WTS  would  hate  this  passage.  



Always with the misdirection for you JWs, isn't it?  This has nothing to do with whether believers listen and obey, it is ONLY about recognizing the voice of their shepherd.  They know His voice, and will follow if they choose.  What they choose has nothing to do with whether they know His voice or not, as you know very well.


Your leaders unambiguously insist that we must follow THEIR voice, not Christ's directly.  They claim to follow Christ's voice, and you are to follow them, as are we all.  THAT is why they cannot help but hate this verse (and your posts endorse that by not addressing directly, EVER, the point I made about it), because it says unmistakably that we need no one but Christ.


Those who believe in Christ know His voice and have absolutely no need whatsoever to pay the least attention to the WTS/GB.  They must hate that a LOT if they are at all rational.



"No matter how big and bad you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone, you answer it."  ~ (common sense)

"Never place a period where God has placed a comma."  ~ Gracie Allen

"I care not for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it." ~ Abraham Lincoln

"I was gonna post something that would tell you the difference between Hindus and Sikhs and Muslims but I realized that you don't need to know anything about somebody's religion to know that you shouldn't shoot them."  ~ Eric Parsons
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13 months ago  ::  May 31, 2012 - 8:52AM #16
woodzz
Posts: 1,953

May 6, 2012 -- 10:01PM, marken wrote:


The  scripture  at  Romans 10:13  states  that  everyone  who  calls  on  the  name  of  Jehovah  will  be  saved. 



No, the scripture at Romans 10:13 states that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.  The name of the Lord is Jesus.  1 Cor. 12:3.


 


Woodzz 

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