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Switch to Forum Live View John 10:4-5 - What are the WTS teachings on this?
3 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 3:10PM #1
Svetlana
Posts: 11,308
John 10:4-5: 

4 When he hath put forth all his own, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.


 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.




We had an interesting sermon today, specifically on John 10:4.  Our Pastor gave a fun, spur-of-the-moment demonstration of this.  The younger Sunday School children had sung, and he stopped them as they began to leave for their class rooms.  He had them stand with their backs to the congregation, and asked some of their parents to say "My child knows my voice."  The children were instructed to raise their hands when they heard their own mother or father speak.  Without fail, almost instantly in each case, the correct child raised his or her hand.  We in the congregation laughed a bit, knowing that the kids were thinking, "Yeah, that's the voice that always tells me to clean my room", but the point was made.

The WTS must really hate this passage, because it says outright that believers in Christ will know His voice and will require no human to tell them what He wants.  JWs are taught to say that anyone can claim God told them anything to justify their behavior, but that is completely false and even irrelevant to this.  JWs can just as easily say that whatever they do wrong they do because they thought that what the WTS/GB meant by whatever teaching.  Someone who truly believes in Christ, or truly believes that the WTS/GB know what they're talking about, will truly listen and not confuse the words.  Those that do what they please AREN'T listening to Christ or to the GB.  The WTS/GB themselves don't always listen (as they prove by some of the things they do and teach), but that isn't because they don't understand God's message to them, it's because they ignore it and do things as THEY prefer.  No, the excuse doesn't work.  Christ's followers know His voice, they know what He wants of them, and any excuse to the contrary is just that, an excuse.  They are NOT listening.  The WTS/GB are the "stranger's voice", and that's why so many of us refuse to listen.
"No matter how big and bad you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone, you answer it."  ~ (common sense)

"Never place a period where God has placed a comma."  ~ Gracie Allen

"I care not for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it." ~ Abraham Lincoln

"I wonder sometimes if we ever give God a headache." ~ Dontay Hall, age 8
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 4:14PM #2
mrjordan
Posts: 2,220

Apr 29, 2012 -- 3:10PM, Svetlana wrote:

John 10:4-5: 


4 When he hath put forth all his own, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.


 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.




We had an interesting sermon today, specifically on John 10:4.  Our Pastor gave a fun, spur-of-the-moment demonstration of this.  The younger Sunday School children had sung, and he stopped them as they began to leave for their class rooms.  He had them stand with their backs to the congregation, and asked some of their parents to say "My child knows my voice."  The children were instructed to raise their hands when they heard their own mother or father speak.  Without fail, almost instantly in each case, the correct child raised his or her hand.  We in the congregation laughed a bit, knowing that the kids were thinking, "Yeah, that's the voice that always tells me to clean my room", but the point was made.

The WTS must really hate this passage, because it says outright that believers in Christ will know His voice and will require no human to tell them what He wants.  JWs are taught to say that anyone can claim God told them anything to justify their behavior, but that is completely false and even irrelevant to this.  JWs can just as easily say that whatever they do wrong they do because they thought that what the WTS/GB meant by whatever teaching.  Someone who truly believes in Christ, or truly believes that the WTS/GB know what they're talking about, will truly listen and not confuse the words.  Those that do what they please AREN'T listening to Christ or to the GB.  The WTS/GB themselves don't always listen (as they prove by some of the things they do and teach), but that isn't because they don't understand God's message to them, it's because they ignore it and do things as THEY prefer.  No, the excuse doesn't work.  Christ's followers know His voice, they know what He wants of them, and any excuse to the contrary is just that, an excuse.  They are NOT listening.  The WTS/GB are the "stranger's voice", and that's why so many of us refuse to listen.



So all 38,000 Christian denominations are hearing the voice of Jesus? If so then Jesus has a lot of voices.


A persons ear has to be trained to be able recognize a voice. I think the example that you gave would have much more meaning if the children were blind folded and put in room with 36,000 women all claiming to be the child's mother calling his/her name. Also that the child was allowed to ask those women questions. Let's say the child's mother's name was Becky. The child could dismiss all the women who's name was not Becky. The child could continue to ask questions until he/she found their mother. It takes knowledge of the person you are looking for the find them.


Now let's put this into practice. I'm looking at over 36,000 different religions. I ask myself the question, which religions call God by his name? Therefore those that don't use the name of God in their teaching, I would dismiss. I believe Jehovah is a God of love. The idea that he would be so cruel to create hell does not make God a loving God. So I dismiss those religions that teach hell. So on and so on. When I first started reading post on this board I could pick out the posters that were Jehovah's Witnesses right off the bat by what they taught. However there are some posters on here that I am still not sure what they are.


upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8...


Do you see this grey line at the beginning on this graph? This what Witnesses are trying to get back to. Before all of the splits in the faith. The original teaching of Jesus.


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3 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 6:23PM #3
Svetlana
Posts: 11,308

Apr 29, 2012 -- 4:14PM, mrjordan wrote:


Apr 29, 2012 -- 3:10PM, Svetlana wrote:

John 10:4-5: 


4 When he hath put forth all his own, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.


 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.




We had an interesting sermon today, specifically on John 10:4.  Our Pastor gave a fun, spur-of-the-moment demonstration of this.  The younger Sunday School children had sung, and he stopped them as they began to leave for their class rooms.  He had them stand with their backs to the congregation, and asked some of their parents to say "My child knows my voice."  The children were instructed to raise their hands when they heard their own mother or father speak.  Without fail, almost instantly in each case, the correct child raised his or her hand.  We in the congregation laughed a bit, knowing that the kids were thinking, "Yeah, that's the voice that always tells me to clean my room", but the point was made.

The WTS must really hate this passage, because it says outright that believers in Christ will know His voice and will require no human to tell them what He wants.  JWs are taught to say that anyone can claim God told them anything to justify their behavior, but that is completely false and even irrelevant to this.  JWs can just as easily say that whatever they do wrong they do because they thought that what the WTS/GB meant by whatever teaching.  Someone who truly believes in Christ, or truly believes that the WTS/GB know what they're talking about, will truly listen and not confuse the words.  Those that do what they please AREN'T listening to Christ or to the GB.  The WTS/GB themselves don't always listen (as they prove by some of the things they do and teach), but that isn't because they don't understand God's message to them, it's because they ignore it and do things as THEY prefer.  No, the excuse doesn't work.  Christ's followers know His voice, they know what He wants of them, and any excuse to the contrary is just that, an excuse.  They are NOT listening.  The WTS/GB are the "stranger's voice", and that's why so many of us refuse to listen.



So all 38,000 Christian denominations are hearing the voice of Jesus? If so then Jesus has a lot of voices.


A persons ear has to be trained to be able recognize a voice. I think the example that you gave would have much more meaning if the children were blind folded and put in room with 36,000 women all claiming to be the child's mother calling his/her name. Also that the child was allowed to ask those women questions. Let's say the child's mother's name was Becky. The child could dismiss all the women who's name was not Becky. The child could continue to ask questions until he/she found their mother. It takes knowledge of the person you are looking for the find them.


Now let's put this into practice. I'm looking at over 36,000 different religions. I ask myself the question, which religions call God by his name? Therefore those that don't use the name of God in their teaching, I would dismiss. I believe Jehovah is a God of love. The idea that he would be so cruel to create hell does not make God a loving God. So I dismiss those religions that teach hell. So on and so on. When I first started reading post on this board I could pick out the posters that were Jehovah's Witnesses right off the bat by what they taught. However there are some posters on here that I am still not sure what they are.


upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8...


Do you see this grey line at the beginning on this graph? This what Witnesses are trying to get back to. Before all of the splits in the faith. The original teaching of Jesus.




What you don't seem to understand is that JWs are just one of those splits.  You have no more evidence that you are right than any of the others do.  You are no closer to that gray line than anyone else is.  But that doesn't matter.


Yes, all of those denominations are hearing the voice of Jesus (well, some of their members are.  Every individual is unique, you know.  Some hear Him, some don't, and the group they belong to has nothing to do with it.)  Jesus said we'd know His followers by their love for one another.  Careful!  Just because JWs claim to love one another doesn't mean anything.  Presumably, all members of each of those denominations love one another, so how does that make you different?  No, what Jesus said is that EVERY one of His followers loves every OTHER one of His followers, even if they belong to different denominations.  My own opinion is that anyone at all who loves his neighbor and makes any effort to help those who need it is a follwer of Christ, even if that person has never even heard of Him.


The two most important commandments are equally important:  To love God, and to love your neighbor.  Every one of those denominations teaches that, and the conscientious members of those denominations hear that message, too.  What differentiates them is usually only the emphasis of one Christian teaching over another.  For example, JWs are taught that going door to door is the most important thing for Christians to do.  Other denominations teach that feeding the hungry is most important, while still others teach that to live a life of contemplation is most necessary to get to know God well enough to be a true follower.  As long as all those denominations put the love of God and of their neighbor FIRST, they are all listening to Jesus's one, most important message.  God created diversity because it's a GOOD thing, it is not a vice to be overcome.  (Sadly, some denominations teach the latter, but that's another subject for another thread.)


Every unique individual on earth can hear the voice of Jesus and understand it.  That each individual might obey it in a different way doesn't negate that.  We are to love one another.  You, as a JW, spread that love through the printed word given to as many people as you can, and that is certainly obedience to Jesus' word.  In my church, we devote a lot of time and effort to feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, and filling other needs as we see them.  You cannot deny that that, too, is love, and so we, too, obey Jesus' voice, yet we all do it differently.

"No matter how big and bad you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone, you answer it."  ~ (common sense)

"Never place a period where God has placed a comma."  ~ Gracie Allen

"I care not for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it." ~ Abraham Lincoln

"I wonder sometimes if we ever give God a headache." ~ Dontay Hall, age 8
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 1:13AM #4
Presentsiimpletense
Posts: 971

Apr 29, 2012 -- 4:14PM, mrjordan wrote:


Apr 29, 2012 -- 3:10PM, Svetlana wrote:

John 10:4-5: 


4 When he hath put forth all his own, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.


 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.




We had an interesting sermon today, specifically on John 10:4.  Our Pastor gave a fun, spur-of-the-moment demonstration of this.  The younger Sunday School children had sung, and he stopped them as they began to leave for their class rooms.  He had them stand with their backs to the congregation, and asked some of their parents to say "My child knows my voice."  The children were instructed to raise their hands when they heard their own mother or father speak.  Without fail, almost instantly in each case, the correct child raised his or her hand.  We in the congregation laughed a bit, knowing that the kids were thinking, "Yeah, that's the voice that always tells me to clean my room", but the point was made.

The WTS must really hate this passage, because it says outright that believers in Christ will know His voice and will require no human to tell them what He wants.  JWs are taught to say that anyone can claim God told them anything to justify their behavior, but that is completely false and even irrelevant to this.  JWs can just as easily say that whatever they do wrong they do because they thought that what the WTS/GB meant by whatever teaching.  Someone who truly believes in Christ, or truly believes that the WTS/GB know what they're talking about, will truly listen and not confuse the words.  Those that do what they please AREN'T listening to Christ or to the GB.  The WTS/GB themselves don't always listen (as they prove by some of the things they do and teach), but that isn't because they don't understand God's message to them, it's because they ignore it and do things as THEY prefer.  No, the excuse doesn't work.  Christ's followers know His voice, they know what He wants of them, and any excuse to the contrary is just that, an excuse.  They are NOT listening.  The WTS/GB are the "stranger's voice", and that's why so many of us refuse to listen.



So all 38,000 Christian denominations are hearing the voice of Jesus? If so then Jesus has a lot of voices.


A persons ear has to be trained to be able recognize a voice. I think the example that you gave would have much more meaning if the children were blind folded and put in room with 36,000 women all claiming to be the child's mother calling his/her name. Also that the child was allowed to ask those women questions. Let's say the child's mother's name was Becky. The child could dismiss all the women who's name was not Becky. The child could continue to ask questions until he/she found their mother. It takes knowledge of the person you are looking for the find them.


Now let's put this into practice. I'm looking at over 36,000 different religions. I ask myself the question, which religions call God by his name? Therefore those that don't use the name of God in their teaching, I would dismiss. I believe Jehovah is a God of love. The idea that he would be so cruel to create hell does not make God a loving God. So I dismiss those religions that teach hell. So on and so on. When I first started reading post on this board I could pick out the posters that were Jehovah's Witnesses right off the bat by what they taught. However there are some posters on here that I am still not sure what they are.


upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8...


Do you see this grey line at the beginning on this graph? This what Witnesses are trying to get back to. Before all of the splits in the faith. The original teaching of Jesus.





What other religions use the misprounoucment  Jehovah ?


www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bibl...



The WT acknowledges that “Jehovah” is not the true pronunciation of God’s name.


 


While inclining to view the pronunciation “Yah.weh” as the more correct way, we have retained the form “Jehovah” because of people's familiarity with it since the 14th century. Moreover, it preserves, equally with other forms, the four letters of the tetragrammaton JHVH (NWT, 1950 ed., Foreword, p. 25 [note: This admission was removed from the 1961, 1970, 1984 editions of the NWT]).


The WT acknowledges that the exact pronunciation of God’s name is unknown:


 


Yet no one today actually can say with certainty how Moses, for example, pronounced the Divine name (WT, May 1, 1978, p. 12).


 


Due to religious disuse, the original pronunciation of the Hebrew has been lost . . . there is no way of knowing what pronunciation is correct (WT, December 1, 1983, p. 5).


In the vindication of the truth
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 8:29AM #5
mrjordan
Posts: 2,220

Apr 30, 2012 -- 1:13AM, Presentsiimpletense wrote:


Apr 29, 2012 -- 4:14PM, mrjordan wrote:


Apr 29, 2012 -- 3:10PM, Svetlana wrote:

John 10:4-5: 


4 When he hath put forth all his own, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.


 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.




We had an interesting sermon today, specifically on John 10:4.  Our Pastor gave a fun, spur-of-the-moment demonstration of this.  The younger Sunday School children had sung, and he stopped them as they began to leave for their class rooms.  He had them stand with their backs to the congregation, and asked some of their parents to say "My child knows my voice."  The children were instructed to raise their hands when they heard their own mother or father speak.  Without fail, almost instantly in each case, the correct child raised his or her hand.  We in the congregation laughed a bit, knowing that the kids were thinking, "Yeah, that's the voice that always tells me to clean my room", but the point was made.

The WTS must really hate this passage, because it says outright that believers in Christ will know His voice and will require no human to tell them what He wants.  JWs are taught to say that anyone can claim God told them anything to justify their behavior, but that is completely false and even irrelevant to this.  JWs can just as easily say that whatever they do wrong they do because they thought that what the WTS/GB meant by whatever teaching.  Someone who truly believes in Christ, or truly believes that the WTS/GB know what they're talking about, will truly listen and not confuse the words.  Those that do what they please AREN'T listening to Christ or to the GB.  The WTS/GB themselves don't always listen (as they prove by some of the things they do and teach), but that isn't because they don't understand God's message to them, it's because they ignore it and do things as THEY prefer.  No, the excuse doesn't work.  Christ's followers know His voice, they know what He wants of them, and any excuse to the contrary is just that, an excuse.  They are NOT listening.  The WTS/GB are the "stranger's voice", and that's why so many of us refuse to listen.



So all 38,000 Christian denominations are hearing the voice of Jesus? If so then Jesus has a lot of voices.


A persons ear has to be trained to be able recognize a voice. I think the example that you gave would have much more meaning if the children were blind folded and put in room with 36,000 women all claiming to be the child's mother calling his/her name. Also that the child was allowed to ask those women questions. Let's say the child's mother's name was Becky. The child could dismiss all the women who's name was not Becky. The child could continue to ask questions until he/she found their mother. It takes knowledge of the person you are looking for the find them.


Now let's put this into practice. I'm looking at over 36,000 different religions. I ask myself the question, which religions call God by his name? Therefore those that don't use the name of God in their teaching, I would dismiss. I believe Jehovah is a God of love. The idea that he would be so cruel to create hell does not make God a loving God. So I dismiss those religions that teach hell. So on and so on. When I first started reading post on this board I could pick out the posters that were Jehovah's Witnesses right off the bat by what they taught. However there are some posters on here that I am still not sure what they are.


upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8...


Do you see this grey line at the beginning on this graph? This what Witnesses are trying to get back to. Before all of the splits in the faith. The original teaching of Jesus.





What other religions use the misprounoucment  Jehovah ?


www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bibl...



The WT acknowledges that “Jehovah” is not the true pronunciation of God’s name.


 


While inclining to view the pronunciation “Yah.weh” as the more correct way, we have retained the form “Jehovah” because of people's familiarity with it since the 14th century. Moreover, it preserves, equally with other forms, the four letters of the tetragrammaton JHVH (NWT, 1950 ed., Foreword, p. 25 [note: This admission was removed from the 1961, 1970, 1984 editions of the NWT]).


The WT acknowledges that the exact pronunciation of God’s name is unknown:


 


Yet no one today actually can say with certainty how Moses, for example, pronounced the Divine name (WT, May 1, 1978, p. 12).


 


Due to religious disuse, the original pronunciation of the Hebrew has been lost . . . there is no way of knowing what pronunciation is correct (WT, December 1, 1983, p. 5).





When I say the name Jehovah, everyone knows whom I am talking about.


History
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah


In other words, "Jehovah" is the best man can do at this point. Now the only debate left is whether to use it or not. There will be those who don't want you try. Those that say it is incorrect, and many many other reasons.


As for me, Jehovah says call His name. So I will with the best translation of His name we have, so there will be no mistake as to who I am talking about.


Romans 10:12,13


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3 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 9:22AM #6
cherubino
Posts: 7,277

In the old Catholic Church, we just said sanctum nomen Tuum, and everyone knew what we were taliking about. One generation's nunc et semper is the next one's liber scriptus proferetur, in quo totum continetur, unde mundus iudicetur, and so it goes.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 11:13AM #7
Presentsiimpletense
Posts: 971


WTS Experience:


From Awake 1984 10/8
(..)


"....In Persian, my language, we use the comparable word “Khuddah” for “God,” the Creator. I prayed to Khuddah many times, but I felt that my prayers would be unacceptable as I was unable to wash as I had been taught I should do before praying.
My thoughts were so disjointed. I could not understand why Khuddah had allowed all these terrible things to happen. All my life I had done my best. What sort of God was he to allow me to be killed, as I felt sure I would be? Yet I had to admit that I had lived a life of pleasure, just pleasing myself. What had I ever done for Khuddah? Indeed, what do I know about him? I asked myself.
It was at one of these moments that I vowed to Khuddah that if there was any way my life could be spared, for my family’s sake, I would really try to find him and serve him for the rest of my life. I truly meant what I said.


(...)


As already recounted, we were rescued after a short, sharp battle and rushed to the hospital.



"...Later when a member of the local congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses called to see me, I politely listened. I found the references to the Bible interesting and checked them in a Persian copy. But when I was told that God, Khuddah, had a name, that was something different! Yes, I had a name and was proud of my name, and now the Bible clearly showed me that Khuddah had a personal name—Jehovah! Eagerly I learned all I could about him from my Bible studies.
Now I could see! Khuddah was not just a God to be bowed down to and worshipped at set times of the day, but he was an individual, personal God, with a loving purpose for mankind. Not a God who simply demands worship, but someone who cares for us individually—for me and my family, personally! My picture was complete. Gladly I would serve Jehovah!
From this point on, things moved rapidly, and now my wife and I are both baptized witnesses of Jehovah.(...)


According to WTS God answers to  "God" "Creator"  how about that! The others calling on "Creator" were rescued too, and did not become jw... interesting.

In the vindication of the truth
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 4:35PM #8
mrjordan
Posts: 2,220

Apr 30, 2012 -- 11:13AM, Presentsiimpletense wrote:



WTS Experience:


From Awake 1984 10/8
(..)


"....In Persian, my language, we use the comparable word “Khuddah” for “God,” the Creator. I prayed to Khuddah many times, but I felt that my prayers would be unacceptable as I was unable to wash as I had been taught I should do before praying.
My thoughts were so disjointed. I could not understand why Khuddah had allowed all these terrible things to happen. All my life I had done my best. What sort of God was he to allow me to be killed, as I felt sure I would be? Yet I had to admit that I had lived a life of pleasure, just pleasing myself. What had I ever done for Khuddah? Indeed, what do I know about him? I asked myself.
It was at one of these moments that I vowed to Khuddah that if there was any way my life could be spared, for my family’s sake, I would really try to find him and serve him for the rest of my life. I truly meant what I said.


(...)


As already recounted, we were rescued after a short, sharp battle and rushed to the hospital.



"Unknown to me, for some months my wife, Shirin, had regularly accepted copies of The Watchtower and Awake! as she found that they were a good help to her in learning English. Later when a member of the local congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses called to see me, I politely listened. I found the references to the Bible interesting and checked them in a Persian copy. But when I was told that God, Khuddah, had a name, that was something different! Yes, I had a name and was proud of my name, and now the Bible clearly showed me that Khuddah had a personal name—Jehovah! Eagerly I learned all I could about him from my Bible studies.
Now I could see! Khuddah was not just a God to be bowed down to and worshipped at set times of the day, but he was an individual, personal God, with a loving purpose for mankind. Not a God who simply demands worship, but someone who cares for us individually—for me and my family, personally! My picture was complete. Gladly I would serve Jehovah!
From this point on, things moved rapidly, and now my wife and I are both baptized witnesses of Jehovah.(...)


According to WTS God answers to  "God" "Creator"  how about that! The others calling on "Creator" were rescued too, and did not become jw... interesting.




The part about his wife reading the Watchtower and Awake months before the incident didn't quite make it on the post. That's ok, I put it back in for you. I know that copy and paste stuff can get tricky.


Those truly seeking Jehovah and if it is his will, prayers are answered. If anyone would like to read the whole story I can PM the article. It's about a hostage situation that went on for days. There was TV news coverage about the ordeal and not everyone made it out alive sadly.

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2 years ago  ::  May 05, 2012 - 7:52PM #9
Newtonian
Posts: 12,196

Apr 30, 2012 -- 8:29AM, mrjordan wrote:


Apr 30, 2012 -- 1:13AM, Presentsiimpletense wrote:


Apr 29, 2012 -- 4:14PM, mrjordan wrote:


Apr 29, 2012 -- 3:10PM, Svetlana wrote:

John 10:4-5: 


4 When he hath put forth all his own, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.


 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.




We had an interesting sermon today, specifically on John 10:4.  Our Pastor gave a fun, spur-of-the-moment demonstration of this.  The younger Sunday School children had sung, and he stopped them as they began to leave for their class rooms.  He had them stand with their backs to the congregation, and asked some of their parents to say "My child knows my voice."  The children were instructed to raise their hands when they heard their own mother or father speak.  Without fail, almost instantly in each case, the correct child raised his or her hand.  We in the congregation laughed a bit, knowing that the kids were thinking, "Yeah, that's the voice that always tells me to clean my room", but the point was made.

The WTS must really hate this passage, because it says outright that believers in Christ will know His voice and will require no human to tell them what He wants.  JWs are taught to say that anyone can claim God told them anything to justify their behavior, but that is completely false and even irrelevant to this.  JWs can just as easily say that whatever they do wrong they do because they thought that what the WTS/GB meant by whatever teaching.  Someone who truly believes in Christ, or truly believes that the WTS/GB know what they're talking about, will truly listen and not confuse the words.  Those that do what they please AREN'T listening to Christ or to the GB.  The WTS/GB themselves don't always listen (as they prove by some of the things they do and teach), but that isn't because they don't understand God's message to them, it's because they ignore it and do things as THEY prefer.  No, the excuse doesn't work.  Christ's followers know His voice, they know what He wants of them, and any excuse to the contrary is just that, an excuse.  They are NOT listening.  The WTS/GB are the "stranger's voice", and that's why so many of us refuse to listen.



So all 38,000 Christian denominations are hearing the voice of Jesus? If so then Jesus has a lot of voices.


A persons ear has to be trained to be able recognize a voice. I think the example that you gave would have much more meaning if the children were blind folded and put in room with 36,000 women all claiming to be the child's mother calling his/her name. Also that the child was allowed to ask those women questions. Let's say the child's mother's name was Becky. The child could dismiss all the women who's name was not Becky. The child could continue to ask questions until he/she found their mother. It takes knowledge of the person you are looking for the find them.


Now let's put this into practice. I'm looking at over 36,000 different religions. I ask myself the question, which religions call God by his name? Therefore those that don't use the name of God in their teaching, I would dismiss. I believe Jehovah is a God of love. The idea that he would be so cruel to create hell does not make God a loving God. So I dismiss those religions that teach hell. So on and so on. When I first started reading post on this board I could pick out the posters that were Jehovah's Witnesses right off the bat by what they taught. However there are some posters on here that I am still not sure what they are.


upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8...


Do you see this grey line at the beginning on this graph? This what Witnesses are trying to get back to. Before all of the splits in the faith. The original teaching of Jesus.





What other religions use the misprounoucment  Jehovah ?


www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bibl...



The WT acknowledges that “Jehovah” is not the true pronunciation of God’s name.


 


While inclining to view the pronunciation “Yah.weh” as the more correct way, we have retained the form “Jehovah” because of people's familiarity with it since the 14th century. Moreover, it preserves, equally with other forms, the four letters of the tetragrammaton JHVH (NWT, 1950 ed., Foreword, p. 25 [note: This admission was removed from the 1961, 1970, 1984 editions of the NWT]).


The WT acknowledges that the exact pronunciation of God’s name is unknown:


 


Yet no one today actually can say with certainty how Moses, for example, pronounced the Divine name (WT, May 1, 1978, p. 12).


 


Due to religious disuse, the original pronunciation of the Hebrew has been lost . . . there is no way of knowing what pronunciation is correct (WT, December 1, 1983, p. 5).





When I say the name Jehovah, everyone knows whom I am talking about.


History
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah


In other words, "Jehovah" is the best man can do at this point. Now the only debate left is whether to use it or not. There will be those who don't want you try. Those that say it is incorrect, and many many other reasons.


As for me, Jehovah says call His name. So I will with the best translation of His name we have, so there will be no mistake as to who I am talking about.


Romans 10:12,13





 Hi Mr. Jordan!


Indeed, and HNT (Hebrew New Testament) via E-sword reads:


Rom 10:13  כי־כל אשר־יקרא בשם יהוה ימלט׃


And the translation I was brought up on before I studied with Jehovah's Witnesses was the original Scoffield reference edition KJV, which has many marginal notes in the its 'New Testament" (NT = Christian Greekn Scriptures) which show a number of verses where the Divine Name belongs.


For example, in Romans 10:13 Scoffield had this note on Lord: "l" - "Jehovah - Joel 2:32"


Interestingly, if you try googling Scoffield's notes on Jehovah it is hard to find this fact - as many of  his  scholarly notes have been removed from "The New Scoffield Reference Bible!"


 

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2 years ago  ::  May 05, 2012 - 8:04PM #10
Newtonian
Posts: 12,196

Mr. Jordan - I am sure glad I have the Scoffield Reference Bible in print - it seems online references are trying to make the removal of Scoffield's marginal notes as to where the name Jehovah belongs in the New Testament complete.  For example, this I got from AOL SEARCH under Scoffield Jehovah Romans 10:13


I finally found a reference accurately denouncing the New Scoffield Reference Bible.   However, while AOL search says this version removes "Jehovah" from the text, it does not mention the removal of "Jehovah" from Scoffield's marginal notes - here is the link as it stands now:


www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/fight.htm...


An excerpt:

The New Scofield Reference Bible

Another counterfeit "KJV" is the New Scofield Reference Bible (NSRB). "King James Version" is clearly printed on the cover, but since when has it been safe to judge a book by it's cover? Please note the following:


1. Dr. C.I. Scofield had been dead many years when the NSRB was published in 1967. He would have never approved of having his name on a "bible" that alters the text of the KJV. The 1909 and 1917 editions of the Scofield Reference Bible do NOT change the text. Therefore the NSRB of 1967 is NOT a Scofield Bible and it is NOT a KJV.


As I said, the link no longer has reference to the removal of "Jehovah" from Scoffield's marginal notes in the NT.


Can anyone find a reference to this crime?

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